Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

drooze, you need to find yourself a real old school Stock racer or three, and sit down and listen to what they have to say. From what you have posted, you really do not have a grasp on what the class is really about, or how the system works.

No, the SCJ is NOT ready to race at $72K. I know a guy who bought one, has already spent money and worked on it before the first weekend, and will be spending more if he continues to race it.

The point is not the amount of money it takes to build one of the new cars. The point is existing cars, that have already had $30K to $70K or more invested in them, cannot compete with the new cars, because the new cars do not belong in Stock, period. Never before have such extremely underfactored purpose built package cars been allowed in Stock Eliminator.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;161835]
Don't hold your breath waiting.

Im not were going to run it to the max from the start, I wont be "waiting for others to" and get caught with my pants down trying to "protect the combo"


And they could build more interest and get more goodwill by giving each returning Veteran a new Mustang or Challenger!

If I was in charge of the program, damm skippy, any past world/national champ who wanted one and would campaign it nationally for 1 year combined across 2 years, "lease" it to them for 1$ to ensure their commitment and so it dosent end up on "ebay" after their term has been met they get the car free and clear, and damm right... Not the Div 4 winner from 1978 in some obscure class....but heavy guns, hell yes...best exposure they could buy

They represent Stock Eliminator mongrels because they're not STOCK!

Thats an opinion and I understand it....Well see when the Gt500's and the SRT8 showroom floor cars are running....

The new iron is good for everyone EXCEPT the people with the old iron.

I don't see how!

When I said everybody I meant the Factory, the NHRA, the Fans and the Vendors.....It seems pretty clear to me. The only people theyre NOT good for is the Competition....


You've apparently never been to a National Event and been around the staging lanes when the pairings for 1st round are being set up!

But that IS my point, not "Joe Public" who already goes to the races....Joe Public who DOSENT, Racing in all Genres needs new blood and new fans.....Ive been to Nats since I was 7....lots of them probably all total over 50...but thats the thing, inside...of course...what does it take to DRAW them IN from the outside...

I know a LOT of Bracket bombers who have never been to a national or even raced at NHRA sanctioned event....lots....

Oh maybe the headsup final at Pomona featuring 2 real cars and 2 class act guys.

I agree 100% Bill....but thats inside racing....will that draw new people in ? No its great to see if youre already on "the inside" but what I am saying is what has brought more outside attention from people who usually arent PAYING attention to Stock Eliminiator, or NHRA events, now LOTS of "Quiet" Mopar and Ford guys.......?

Cheers

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Thats why the SCJ got the quotes on Ready to Race....I am aware of that.

And Im not being a jerk when I say this....Im serious when I say...I dont need their Perception of what they think Class "SHOULD" be in their minds. I enjoy and respect veterans of the sport but.....well....things are and were different, and their opinion on what class racing "should be" dosent change the way that is IS now with these cars in compeition, so I can belive what they do and be doomed to failure in the current landscape or I can choose to go with the flow.

I also know from Bike packages I had over 10-20 in that met the same fate.....litteraly...but in the end it was great for me and them. I resisted...man did I resist..Its 100% the SAME thing that is happening now in Drag Racing, I saw it first hand in Bikes.....10 years ago...I have also seen orginizations like WERA and AHRMA grow and prosper....I understand more than you realize and what Im saying is its survivable.

You mean to say that never before in "Stock" has such a car been allowed....I am serious so dont take this the wrong way....In the early 60's where were the Thunderbolts and Lightweights put ? Where did the High and Mighty run ? Im building a copy of that car because I love so much what it represents. Then where were the AFX cars tried, BEFORE they were broken out into their own class ? Maybe it wasnt stock....maybe my understanding of history is skewed.

The rules were changed to put the cars where they needed to be......why wont this happen again ?

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

I see now why you do not have a grasp on the concept of the class and how the system works. You do not want to.

Those veterans are still racing. Whether it is Woodro Josey, the Knight Brothers, or any number of other people in the class who have been in the class all of their lives, for 20, 30, 40, or even 50 years, I'm sure their idea of "respect" isn't the same as yours. Especially since your idea of "respect" seems to be that it is okay to come in to the class with ringers and run right over all of the veterans. And your idea of "respect" includes a radical departure from what the class they've been racing in for years has been, so that you can race what you want to in the class.

Really, your definition of "respect" is "all you old guys and your old cars are cool, but you're has beens, and that makes it okay for me to come into your class and change everything".

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Alan, I think that Drooze is coming into our sport in the same way we did, looking at it through "rose colored glasses". I don't think that he means and disrespect.
When I first came in to this I thought that I was good enough that I should have a sponsor in no time and I'd be rolling in the dough. Then reality sets in, I didn't know the right people. I'm not complaining and I wouldn't change anything but I managed to do what I have through hard work and the help of good (though not connected) friends. IMHO, just the fact that he has a Drag Package means (to me) that he has "friends in high places" which I never had. I'm gonna guess that a pretty well off Daddy doesn't hurt either.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Far from it....

Never do I think anyone is a has been....only when someone becomes incapable of change and become set in their way incapable of adapting and making the neccesary adjustments to stay competitive. Its no different than "In my day" well its not...there are PLENTY of Veteran racers who adapt and THRIVE with the changes that are presented. For them I have unending respect. For those who were on the cutting edge and capable drivers I have unending respect.

Its not that they are "has beens" its that if they do nothing but complain "this shouldnt be allowed, Im putting my foot down" and it will happen with or without their seal of approval...then they, and ONLY they will relegate themselves to the High School Quarterback who always had that 1 great game.

Perhaps its my perception of Hobby and Competition or Sportsman vs Pro...the 2 are mutually eclusive, when I go to Test and Tunes and Gamblers races and the like, Im there as a hobby, to screw around, and do nothing but have fun. Racing under a sanctioning body is racing, to win. Can you personally have fun if you dont win , ? I can..

Does "Sportsmen" mean hobby less competition ? If so why is there a sacntioning over it ?

The single reason the Challenger was decided isnt because it was a
"ringer" but rahter what it represented in an opportunity to be a part of...history , just like the original lightweights and package cars. I was going to build a FED to screw around in the Vintage...thats what I was really looking forward to...or "Nostalgia" as you call it....same thing. We would be running a regular SRT8 Challenger in Class this year had the DP not panned out.

What about the "History" it seems a lot are ignoring, maybe my history is incorrect on the Lightweights, and AFX cars as well as the later "Package" cars.......

Can someone please explain how radically different these cars are to those ? I see even less departure from the Lightweights and Thunderbolts for a mechanincal perspective ? Is it because they ended up somewhere else in class ? And thats what I am saying may happen here, and if it does, you wont hear me complain about it but rather look forward to it, and adjust, and perhaps succeed and perhaps fail. What was, from the veteran racers the reception to these when they were debuted ?

But now those cars are revered and enjoyed. Hmmmm......

One thing is 100% certain, if and when the Package Cars are moved or refactored and I FAIL to adjust, I will FAIL period...the solution seems simple, adjust or perish. Dosent mean I have to like it......

Im building my 49 Plmouth 3 Window coupe....because of the History that it represents....

Your perception of my idea of respect is pretty far off, but thats ok...I didnt make the rule, I didnt ask for the rule...I had 0 to do with it.....so the thought that "Really, your definition of "respect" is "all you old guys and your old cars are cool, but you're has beens, and that makes it okay for me to come into your class and change everything"." is incorrect....

It was changed before I got here...and it wouldnt have mattered wed of still been running a Challenger in Stock....how would they feel about the stock SRT8 when it hit low 10's ? or a year or two off High 9's ?

Cheers

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

You know, it's really funny. I have been a fan of Stock/SS for 30 years. Any time a new/fast combination pops up it was always going to "kill" class racing. Yet, here we are 30 years later and Stock/Super Stock are still going.

Yes, the CJ's and Challengers are soft. However, how many times did they reset the national records? (1 or2?) How many times has anyone really gotten blasted on a heads-up run?

The CJ's have already gotten HP and knocked themselves out of at least 1 class. Time will take care of things.

Yes, if you are in the same class as the CJ's or CDP cars you may not win class at Indy, but there are so few of them actually being raced that the odds of your combination never being competitive again is very slim.

All the talk about the 1000' runs, and no one seems to want to say that it is not just the CJ's and CDP's doing it. Some guys are still hell bent on having THE fastest car in their combination that they will do whatever it takes to be "THE MAN". Too many others just want to sit around and whine that the fast guys must be paying Glendora off or cheating, or both.

The reality is that any time you want to do true heads-up racing the guys with the best abilities or most money will always win, no matter what. Remember, that's why the Eliminator became a bracket race. Too many guys were uncompetitive and wanted a chance to win a Wally.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

I have no dog in this hunt, but I do agree 100%

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

There is another way to look at the world other than through "Rose Colored Glasses" ? Gotta be miserable.....

All relative I guess.....When the old man has his issues and my son his own, this is not life or death. Its something to compete at. To me.....so were bikes...but I heal too damm slow to race anymore...thats what happens when you get old...and I feel ancient.

In as much as "connected" we went to the dealer 1/2 mile from our shop and the old man ordered the car, I thought it was a fluke we got "picked" but after talking to other owners some just did the same thing and walked into a dealer....At least 4 I know of have no previous NHRA expereince...and those are just the ones I know of, their cars wont even be ready till 2011

In as much as my fathers money or lack....dosent matter, its not mine I earned my money, he his, we both suck with a checkbook and have been broke as many times as flush. There are times in my adult life I had to buy my dad a car for daily transportation, and he me....we help each other when need be and would give each our last cent...Thats our Family, Him and I, and short of my kids its all we have as far as family the rest is gone except a couple distant cousins.

What my father DID give me, 100% was the intellect to survive and adapt, and learn....I was a Plumber and Pipefitter, blue collar guy till 25 or so....Sons Docs said find something else too risky for your son, I became a Programmer, I still code....thanks to Pop....from there, I got tired of that so here I am.

I dont know anything else, everyone says I could fall in a pile of **** and come up smelling like roses....hmmmm maybe its the glasses :)

I just dont know any other way to look at things, if I had "reality glasses" I would have gotten depressed long ago...I would have seen that I SHOULD not be where I am, I SHOULD not be secure, I SHOULD not be what everyone tells me I shouldnt be....but I am...and on my own. I always joke, and there may be more truth to it than I realized, I havent failed because Im too stupid and stubborn to know I was supposed to.

I might have a few spare pairs of glasses if anyone elses are scratched and only showing dandelions :D

Cheers

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Apparently when I say the same thing......I get slammed.. :) Thanks...

The cars are going to be rated up quick....very quick. But Im told "dont be so sure ?" Im as sure as you because I plan to be one of the ones to make it happen intentionally, and there is a reason for it, but thats for Phase II in June :)