Re: Dumbo The Flying Elephant
 

Patsy lamented that fixing between my ears is a lost cause.

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Assembling is easy it's getting all the parts to like each other is the time consuming part.

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Larry, that kinda sounds like when I have the In-Laws over.

J.R.

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I enjoy the documentation part of the build. Checking piston to valve clearance at different installed C/L. Sometimes moving the crank sprocket to a different Advance or Retard does not show up as advertised on paper.

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A weekend off from being a grandpa. I get to work on my stuff. First thing is finalizing my disassembly notes, I failed to do that last time and it almost cost me an unplanned disassembly.

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During the mock up portion of the build I always give myself an NHRA tear down. Placement of the indicator observing straight, perpendicular, and parallel is very important to have the lift check correctly.

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I bought this nicely done engine part and it gave me some flexibility in tuning. I installed it but couldn't get it to repeat. Even the face runout would not repeat. I checked everything and everything checked good. Long story short, the dowel pin was protruding out far enough to make the hold down bolt washer apply in uneven force to the cam gear causing the runout to be everywhere.
A lot of times the parts are smarter than me.

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I would say you found that issue, so you were actually much smarter than the dumb parts. Did you choose to trim the dowel pin to alleviate the runout measurement issue? Maybe report what you found to the parts mfg., so they can at least attempt a workaround on that cam timing gearset? Just saying.

On some of our robots in FIRST, some of the transmission gearsets for our wheelsets we always, take to the mill when new and face the center contact surfaces, and all washers and bolt faces to make sure that both faces on each gear are flat and true so each gear meshes correctly centered on each gear they mesh with throughout the gearset speed ranges. They are rarely machined perfectly to our liking until we trim or face them up. Once we do, they work a ton better. And rarely do we see washers that are truly flat or true until machined flat on both sides as they are usually just standard punched parts. We will often use a stack of thin flat stainless steel shims to replace a cheap steel washer under the head of a centered gear bolt, and it will often make a perfectly faced gear run and mesh more true with less runout. Some of those gearboxes are 3, 4, or 5 speed transmissions where one main gear has to move outward against perpetually smaller, and smaller gears, and if that main is not perfectly square, it will not mesh correctly and quickly when shifting both up and down through the selected range.

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We, Harry Tune and myself, built and raced toy airplanes. We made our own pistons, liners, heads, pins with retainers, gaskets, tooling and fixtures. Bore size was .737” displacement was .34 of a cubic inch. We learned a lot about straight and round. We mixed our own fuel. Laboratory nitromethane is clear like water and makes more power than that yellow stuff.

That was a lot of fun!

Disassemble is moving faster now.

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In trying to make more power I know we need to raise the RPM level. To me that means paying attention to fits. Well I found this one by accident. The gears that go on the crank that drives the camshaft are black in color and have an ID that has been bored. Two out of the three gears still had portions of the ID still black in color and fit looser on the crank. I do have one that cleaned up on the ID and is a good sliding fit on the crankshaft. I don't know if that could be a potential problem at 150 Hertz, but just trying to keep everything straight and round.

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Larry,
The level of "Blueprinting" in this engine is nothing short of amazing. I hope it brings you the FS/D class Wally once again.
Frank

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Mr Vic stuff is Bullet fast and the car is a work of art. To have a chance I’ll need everything I can get. And if I try to go to Super Stock that Patterson young man is way fast. Both Chevys run killer MPH.

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Got some tooling finished today, will finish one in the morning. Patsy is on her sister trip so my list of honey do?s is real short this weekend. I should get a lot accomplished.

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Best laid plans of men and mice. Long story short it blew up in my face. Maybe a 50% weekend

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I don't actually know the legal answer to the question (but it may be worth the asking of the proper tech person), but...can you legally overbore the ID and press fit a brass bushing to correct the ID of the hole for correct centering and true up of those cam/crank gear sets?

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The 60mm cam uses straight roller cam bearings that have positive stop location. I don?t know the difference in expansion rates if any between brass and aluminum. I would hate to guess wrong and turn something loose during a pull.

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I had two torque wrenches checked today. The Snap-on checked rite on throughout the range. With the non Snap-on wrench, the higher the torque setting the greater the error. The error was almost 10%. Was it enough to pull the threads out of the block? I don't know.

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Back in the swing of things 4 to 8hours a day on getting Dumbo better. Most of the grandpa stuff is done until fall. It feels kind of good.

Tomorrow is miles to go before I sleep.

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Busy day yesterday. Drop some stuff off, went to new places, met some new people, visited with old friends, picked up bad parts, and got some new tools to try. 422miles in six states. The great part was the time alone with the radio off thinking of ways to improve our racing program. Sometimes I would pull off on an exit to write something down so I would not forget.

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Beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel, you guessed it, it's another train. When I tested the strength of my repair by torqueing the cap down to specifications the other outer stud threads pulled out. The repaired stud took the torque and felt solid. So now I'm installing the repairs to the remaining five short outer stud holes.
"and so it goes"

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Hindsight is always clear. If I knew to listen, the block was trying to tell me something. All of the outside studs had to have more force to remove them from normal. What normal is I can't define, but something changed. Part of the problem as I see it is the outer main studs are non ARP and the OD of the rolled threads are .006-.007" smaller than the ARP studs with the same thread form. To correct for the small studs I made the tap drill size a little smaller then carefully taped the hole for the insert. I did a test in an aluminum practice piece before I repaired the first hole. The end result was the stud fit better in the block. I did have to make some stuff to drill hole straight and something to keep the tap straight.

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The block maybe be made from bubble gum aluminum but the machine work is very good. I?ve collected some destroyed blocks that I rob parts or cut up to better understand what I?m working with. To drill and tap the block I used old main caps that fit my block amazingly well. Front to back, left to right (they are cross bolted and doweled), and housing bore is close.
Made a concentric sleeve for the cap. OD of the sleeve fit ID of cap ID of sleeve fit tap drill. The second cap was drilled just under the the OD of the threads of the tap. While the second cap was in the mill after drilling, a center was added to support the end of the tap to keep it straight and centered during the tapping operation.
By having the cap loosely taped it forced the tap to tap the hole straight and perpendicular. I had to modify a insert tap to be a bottom tap to use all of the insert. I did not want to give up the last two threads.
All drilling was done with a hand drill on the block. The only things I had to observe was speed, feed, and depth.

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I know it's a pain but pictures would be awesome. Sometimes it's hard to comprehend what a person means until a picture and then it's obvious.

The second reason I do it is to remember what I did. "where did I ...oh yeah, I used the other tool" etc.

Great thread, thanks, Jim

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As Jimmy Bridges once said all of the experts don’t live out of town Jim I used a junk cap for an aluminum block bolted down with a reduction sleeve to guide the tap drill and keep in the center. The depth was determined by a mark on the flute of the tap drill. A second cap was drilled the size of the OD of the thread form of the insert tap. Without moving that set up I installed a center in the drill chuck to keep the tap centered while I taped the cap. Both outside ends of the cap were drilled and tapped. After the block was tap drilled I installed the tap guide cap and taped the hole for the inserts. Installed inserts and tested each stud for performance.
I ain’t to good with pictures.
Mr John would be great help.
Hope this helps

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I have all the main studs assigned and checked for Bullet nose contact. While making protective bearings from old main bearings I noticed an aluminum bearing that all of the aluminum was worn away it was difficult to see at first glance but steel and aluminum are almost the same color. A pocket knife can tell the difference. Block is ready to go to the car wash to be cleaned before installing gaskets and honing plates. Before we have it honed we will check ring gap and bore size and tension of oil ring.

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Upon further inspection it looks like the tap drill was larger than spec leaving the thread form short for 7/16- 14 NC. Who or what to blame, I will take responsibility I had a torque wrench that was not true, and I payed the price. Measuring the thread pull out it was about 20 % undersized.

Y’all have a good July 4th weekend.

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Block is cleaned well enough to take to the machine shop next week to be honed. The manes are installed with protector bearings and torqued. Honing plates and gaskets are installed and torqued. It has taking a while to get the gaskets to be large enough to go to the next size overbore if it is necessary. A steel gasket hanging in the bore will eat up a set of stones.

Most if not all machine shops appreciate receiving relatively clean stuff and sometimes you can save some money by cleaning it yourself.

Time to clean up my shop its a wreck.

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A tip of the hat to Mahle Pistons. I checked the next size +.005" over pistons for the engine and size varied .0003" and weight of the eight pistons varied by less than a gram. I forgot to check weight of small piston to larger piston for balance. The bores checked OK just not very straight. With us going to the next size Jeff Taylor Performance will have it round and straight. Honing
using a Profilometer assures the values of RVK and RPK are closely observed. New equipment is always plus for any shop.

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Perfect explanation, got it, thank you.

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Yesterday was a good day at Jeff Taylor Performance we got a lot of stuff done and got some stuff ordered. I learned a little more of the things to look for on my combination and how to check for potential problems.

Time to go to work!

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After years of doing business with Total Seal I was pleasantly surprised by the improvement in quality of their top rings. I was perfectly happy with the quality in past orders but now the quality appears to be in a different league.
Anywhere you look it shows quality and value. I hope they run half as good as they look. It will be fun to have an elephant with a top end charge!

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Highs block is almost ready to check for leaks with the plates I made. New parts are on the way. Weekend is open to work on Dumbo. Lows 30 year old parts washer died. I think the new parts washer will last a lifetime.

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What is your target date to get back out? Indy?

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As soon as everything is done and tested. Test day is next month I hope. For me it’s something’s can not be hurried.
On a progress report, the block passed with flying colors after I installed all of the plugs. No leeks. Thanks Jeff Taylor. New wash tank is working.
Still waiting on mains bearings and some springs.
Today is ring day all 64 of them.

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Larry,
I hope you make it to Bowling Green for Doug's Test Session.
Frank

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Just spent $1,000 plus on two sets of springs and two sets of main bearings.

I must be crazy.

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Welcome to the club, Larry.
I thought you were already a lifetime member :rolleyes:

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It was a good decision that I ordered two sets of main bearings because one set was damaged in shipping. The package was mishandled so bad it broke all the air bags that were to cushion the parts in transit. In defense of the seller the parts were direct ship from the manufacturer. Clearance on the mains is good on one and rest need to be adjusted a small amount. Top to bottom I had a good day racing.

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Getting old always makes you look for the easier pathway. My block has five main caps with 26 fasteners with a three step torque sequence on 16 of them. So I decided to take a shortcut and skip the last step and check clearance. It was in no way predictable and off a mile. I finished the last step and everything was as it should be. I knew better.

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I am disappointed in making this post.
I've been on hold on customer service for two hours and in that time I have went from 34th in ?Q? to 22 in two hours. Buckeye sales needs to have better customer service and support.