Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Unfortunately I can't see Maple grove participating in any sort of "Free Spectator" day at any of their events. After the series of events and conversations that went down at the Dutch, it seems that we almost weren't even wanted due to the low car count. The new MG policy seems to be, if there's no guaranteed lump sum of profit, they aren't interested. I understand its not a good business move to host events that don't make money, but it seems like when a track is run solely from a businessman's approach, they soon realize that the land is more valuable than the track....

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

All Great Points James. The crowd can understand Heads Up Racing Easier than Handicap Racing.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Ouch, but rings true given the decline of the car culture most racers grew up in.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Bader absolutely did fail on his promises and that’s why he wasn’t bought back.

As to MG, Kyle told me last year that they have a 5 year plan and after 5 years if it’s not turning the profit they expect, it will be for sale.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Didn't they have so many cars in some classes they couldn't finish every week when Bader was there on a regular bracket race day ?

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

While that is true, the track here in Tulsa has a what they call "The Throw Down in T-Town". Admission is free but they do charge for parking ($25). They fill the place up.

The following classed are contested:
Top Sportsman
Top Dragster
6.0 Index
Jr Pro
Jr Sportsman
Super Pro - Bracket
MWDRS - Pro Mod
Gassers
No Electronics
Pro 420

It would be interesting to see them try this at the Division 4 doubles in September.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Yes he got Maple Grove's bracket program back to record high car counts. He was brought in by previous owner. He was not given free reign to do everything he wanted to do because as a consultant you are limited to what the owner okays. Lastly, in 2019 in a good economy with low gas prices we had 128 stockers at Maple Grove divisional and God knows how many at the Dutch classic. Things move in waves so you can never say it is dying a slow death when car counts up-ticked since I started in 2009. Pandemic and high inflation likely brought it back down again. You have to wither storms.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I know of 2 tracks in Division 6 that have many people attend the Divisionals.

One is Firebird Raceway near Boise Idaho. The New family knows how to pack the place. Last year when I went to the class runoffs on Saturday the parking lot was packed when I left about 5 p.m. I had lunch for $13. It was a big burger, french fries and a large Coke. Good time and good food.

The other one is Woodburn Drag Strip near Woodburn, Oregon. This track is run by the Severance family, I believe. I was there last year for all 4 days of the double Divisional. One side of the track was filled with people camping for ALL 4 days. The cost to do so was reasonable, I am told. The spectator parking lot was full for the weekend. The food was good and reasonably priced. The racers and spectators ALL had a good time and lots of people roaming the pits at various times.

I am sure some advertising was involved and word of mouth helps, also. The tracks have to promote the events and offer a good time at reasonable costs for these events to be profitable.

The racer costs are what they are. Probably set by someone above my paygrade.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

He did not and MG could never finish a big $ race. They never cap the entries and know they won’t finish. Regardless, this ain’t about MG it’s about division and which will never be great again especially in D1

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

To make divisional’s great again-. Spectators! You need them. The money is made on concessions.
Our home track did not advertise or have cars for spectators as in top Alky, wheelie or a jet car.
Most spectators don’t understand what the 90 classes , stock/ Superstock and Comp are about much less bracket cars
As much as some stk/SS don’t care for it , we need the 90 , comp and top classes. Otherwise it’s boring to spectators and it’s car counts.
Just my opinion.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Maple Grove is open to the idea when I spoke with Kenny Koretsky a few times this year. They hosted a carload special at our divisional in May and brought in a much higher spectator count than in recent years. Only problem was it started at 3pm which I hate because it doesn't get anyone in the gate early enough to watch us sportsman. We run our E1 around 3pm and make way for Top Alcohol the rest of the night which is the main draw. They qualify and run all eliminations and then there were fireworks at the end. Sunday is a ghost town when we complete our eliminations. I say qualify Top Alcohol on Saturday evening as an attraction and then run their eliminations on Sunday as another attraction to get people in the gate both days. Track is paying their entry fee and purse so they should be open to it.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

It is? I thought it was about how to "Make Divisionals Great Again"

Divisionals are for RACERS not spectators and for racers, that starts and ends with MONEY in the pocket of class winners. Increase the payout and make the contingency program great again! That's ALL class racers really care about. No racer is not entering a divisional race because there are no spectators in the stands.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

And how do you plan to do that with no spectators? Please go read an economics 101 book and then come back on this thread when you are ready to not sound like an uneducated moron. Thanks.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

How much time will this add to a Sunday schedule? Not everyone is self employed or can burn vacation time with ease. Depending on where you live...you're burning a half or whole day on Thursday for travel, Friday for time runs, and then potentially Monday for travel if the race runs late due to added time from track prep, any oil downs, etc. Don't forget weather delays either. Cecil County, 2018...around 50 racers left because they couldn't stay for Monday eliminations.

I agree that we need spectators in the seats, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the racers.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

You've think you know, think you have the formula, the special sauce but sound like an uneducated moron that hasn't read economics 101, with it all on the dime of the track owners.

or track owners

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Bottom line is customers and making a Buck. Tracks need to show a profit. For that you need drivers, crew and spectators. If you don’t have spectators your entry will double or triple. Spectators offset that. I’m not talking big buck races. I’m taking NHRA Divisional’s.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

The only other way is an event sponsor. Most of those have sailed…

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

and again, spectators ain't coming, haven't in decades and won't because what we do is boring to watch and makes no sense. Also we no longer have a car culture in this country, no longer are in love with our cars, no longer have auto shop in high schools, kids no longer dream of the day they get their license and the list goes on and on.

The fact is what we do is dying and has been for decades, the same can be said for bracket racing. There is not nearly enough young men and women coming into the sport as there are leaving it. Think for a moment what the car count will be in stock/super stock in just 10 years from now, when many here will be dead or too old to race.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I’ll agree to a point but if you advertise and make it attractive I believe they can put buns in the seats. Marketing…

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Stock and Superstock is the most active car show in the nation. Not only do to see it, you get to see it perform. That’s huge!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

you don't have to sell it to me or any other racer, it needs to be sold to kids, young men and young women and the truth is it can't be, their country, their world is very different then ours. Many things have changed and many more will, least of which is how young people feel about cars but the bottomline is of the few tracks owners in each division that will still PAY to host a divisional and lose money doing so more often than not, they are not going to spend more money marketing the event and for those that do market it, it's largely done on fb.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

At the Divisional race at New England Dragway for the last several years, they have been bringing in a couple of wheelstanders and a jet truck to run amongst the alcohol cars, and a few sportsman cars. I live about 100 miles from the track, and I see the advertising on TV. This race is late August, so it is already getting dark a little earlier in the evening, making the flames show up better. It is also 2 1/2 months after the national event, so time for the spectators to get their fix of drag racing. They seem to fill the stands pretty well. I don't know any of the specifics on profitability, but I'm sure it helps. The alcohol cars are already there, so that part of the program is free to the track.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Norwalk Divisional this year...

Super Gas E1 got pushed off until Sunday morning...but the point is...we weren't the show, and the place was packed with spectators. Most of the afternoon and evening was spent running "fast" cars down the track...and time trials at that, so handicaps didn't need to be explained to the casual spectator. Also, the fans saw more racing here than watching eliminations. I think there were 12-14 Alcohol Dragsters for example...so they saw them all trying to get in the show, as opposed to the 8 who actually made it.

1000' AHFS dumps and throttle stop racing don't attract crowds. If they did, they wouldn't have finished us 8 hours before the show was over.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

That "show" provides one of the nicest facilities in the country run by one of the best families in the business to give us a beautiful place to race.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

To run an 8-Car Alcohol field on a Sunday would be 3 rounds. According to NHRA.tv Maple Grove D1 the first round of alcohol was roughly 30 min and there was some delay in there someone hit cones, E2 was roughly 11 min, and the final round was 6 min. This included dragging, spraying track before they came out. I don't think that would kill your travel time. Most racers on this forum long for the 1970s when there were 1000 cars at a divisional with packed stands, top fuel, pro stock, etc. Did you finish on Saturday back then?

Super Stock was part of the show at Norwalk D3 if they went out at 4pm. It also looks like Alcohol ran eliminations on Sunday since all I see is Qualifying on that schedule. I guess Bader and I think alike.

Why pay for for a wheelie exhibition when stock and super stock provide that free of charge? Could give that money to the best wheelie... hmm I just had another idea...

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I'm not putting the facility or the people down. They've figured out how to make it work. I was trying to drive the point that you can't really sell what we're doing to the general public as a main event attraction.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Most racers long for the 1970's because there was a specific set of rules with fair and equal application of tech inspection. That's a whole different discussion though.

If we're going to run Alcohol on Sunday, then there's no need to have a three day divisional. Turn it into a Saturday-Sunday event...Time Runs Saturday, Eliminations on Sunday.

One time run of wheelstanding door cars is much more exciting to watch than one time run of Super Comp. I'm sure that was planned on purpose to have those cars runs as filler at that time, even Super Gas...again, fast door cars. You missed my point on the Alcohol Time Trials on Saturday. 12 dragsters and 10 funny cars in two sessions, as opposed to 8/8, 4/4.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Well, I keep wanting to go off on certain "unwatchable" categories. Not going to do it though. Too many friends involved. Plus they are helping to keep the whole Div. scam afloat too.
I did realize one thing, in reading this thread. You could put a half dozen smart guys, that have been around for 50 or so years in a room, and you would never get a consensus on how to make Divs great again (as if they ever were).
Besides, I get an uneasy feeling that this is all a bit like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. :-(

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Mark it seems that not many are smart enough to think out of the box. Can't make the last couple of generation car kids. They would rather sit on the couch and kill ****. Time to bring in FanDuel and let the good times roll. This isn't rocket science. They could set this up real easy. You want to get the bigger payouts, car counts higher and the tracks making more money so they can stay open. Get that kind of money involved or sit back and wait until the last car goes down the track. Just off the cuff lets say you have a 64 car field in Stock or whatever class. After the ladder is set and before first round pick the last 6 cars. Get 6 out of 6 it pays back x amount. Get 5 out of 6 get x. 4 out of six x Pick the last two cars it pays x . Pick winner and runner up pays x. This is just off the top of my head I'm sure the Pros that run off track betting could make it real fun. You realize how much they could pay back those 6 places.

You can bet on just about anything why not racing. BP

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

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Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Id like to see more live streaming like Motor Mania

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

"Im really perturbed in Pomona raceway I dont care what association it partakes in but if its $15 for a hot dog or $23 for a sandwich it better be at least descent it amazes me the cost of everything and get sub-par absolute junk . I understand inflation but these venues are failing if you disagree you are the problem . No common family can come out here and afford for a good time"[/QUOTE]

This summer my local NHRA track in Nebraska hosted Funny Car Chaos (Friday Sat) the Elims were supposed to be on Saturday & as the 1st pair did burnouts for 1st round rain kicked in & the event was cancelled (not the track Mgr's decision) They could've raced on Sunday but FCC Promoter said No!! A friend from my hometown brought all her grandkids paid $200 & never got to see 1 run & didn't get their money back!! She told me she'd never go there again & I told her it wasn't the tracks decision but she didn't care!!!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

BP , Pretty much like horse racing. I believe We’ve discussed this here long ago. Don’t think that would fly. I was audited three times earlier in my racing. Schedule C small business and I never lost one audit however I remember the IRS saying they they look at what I was doing and considered it the same as horse racing. After that I abandoned the C.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Putting spectators in the stands is the key, we can all agree. Promotion, reasonable admission fees, exhibition vehicles, TAD, TAFC, TS, TD will get them to come watch. I also think people enjoy watching the wheel standing Stock/SS cars. Its not an easy balance, not all divisionals run the alcohol cars anymore, and some races cant even get a full 8 car field. But imo, those are the classes that will get the spectators. This comes from a guy who runs in one of those "unwatchable classes" and TS.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

An easy and cheap solution for the tracks to add spectators would be to have the local "Outlaw Racers" run at the event.

They always draw a big crowd and there is a long line for concessions.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Just change the name to outlaw stock / super stock .

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Except, very little of what we do anymore could even slightly be considered as outlaw....

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Having the junior dragster program included with divisional racing was a smart idea. I was amazed at the amount of juniors I saw this year at some of the races. Hopefully these kids will fill the seats of the ones retiring in the next decade.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

over 30 years of juniors have shown they won't with only a fraction still racing 5 years after they age out. That said, most class racers don't share your sentiment about them included in the divisionals.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Juniors certainly have a place in Divisionals. If nothing else they provide invaluable family time that might otherwise not happen. If my grandkids had shown any interest whatsoever in Juniors then I know I would have been to more races helping them, as it was the baseball field was my frequent hangout and I’m completely good with that.

I loved seeing Cooter helping his kid race Juniors at Belle Rose, then I thought “oh great, when I’m 85 and racing then even his kid will be kicking my butt”.