Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

And here I thought I was going to be reading a post about actually helping a younger crowd enter the classes, boy was I wrong and disappointed. Being what I feel is part of the younger crowd in our classes (36) I am very thankful to have had influencers that not only helped, but understood my situation, and gave me the early lesson of “you can do it yourself on budget and go racing, but when YOU decide to try going fast, it’s gonna cost!” As some others have stated, many of our racers are the Bain of our own existence

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Would love to hear a different side of the same story, please make a thread of how you went about entering stock including your build and who helped you to get into it.
Maybe hear from someone Billy Nees helped? I would love to hear that story

Now to me this story is an eye opening truth to those wannabes that look at stock blindly and think they can build a car like any other bracket car. It’s not saying it can’t be done, just what to expect.
Thanks Mark for posting

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Ya know, there's a "newbie" who happens to be a member of a prominent racing family in Div. 3 and is just getting things sorted out. This prominent racing family doesn't post much on here but maybe they could make an exception and make some helpful comments OR maybe even start a "build" thread?

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Getting close now...

NB> Hey, I'm running out of cash here. I see some 1 and 5/8 " headers on Summit. I think I'll get them with my credit card and add some collector extensions. What do you think?
VR> You should be able to run under the index with them, but 283s really react well to a good header. Maybe a step deal with merge collectors, or a set of stainless Tri /Y's ..Eventually you'll want to go that way..

NB maxes out his credit card for a fuel pump, gas line , fuel pressure gauge , sample valve, tach, oil and water gauges, line lock, two gas jugs, and a low pressure tire gauge.

The guys put the car all together, fire it up , break in the cam with some borrowed 1.3 rockers. Sounds great.

There's a rumor out there that the local track will be opening for some Friday night T&T action, so we wait...

TBC


https://i.postimg.cc/pXcfQczB/cid-CAM00608.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/vTcBGhTQ/cid-CAM00613.jpg

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Hmmm, I thought those pictures looked familiar!

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I would definitely fall under the category of people that Billy has and continues to help get into class racing. I thought about starting a build thread when he, for better or worse, let me drag him into the project of converting the car from V/SA trim to F/SA trim over the past 4-5 months. He does like to say I’m the “insane kid” that tunes his efi cars, but decided to play with a 53 year old carbureted car.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

WOW ! And the reason you have that LARGE harmonic balancer on the engine is …..

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Yeah, sadly, I didn't really think about it at the time.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Just kinda jumped out at me , the factory balancers were so small …

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

It was an approved unit from Summit and the price was right.
Not sure now, but I think it was Wade Owens who told me they tried a little tiny hub, instead, and didn't see anything :-O

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Didn't Chevy put a larger one on the 327ci 365HP and 375HP engines in the corvette?


Stan

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

( I'm going to use my crystal ball to finish this. Then I'll offer my personal observations, and then we'll kick it around)

Wild Horse opens in mid September for a Friday night T&T. NB has to work until 5, but then he and VR head out to the track.
There's about 200 cars in line after they tech in.
An hour later ,it's show time . NB brings it up on the two step but the rpm is too high and it rolls the beams, but he runs 102 mph!
Back in the pits , they adjust the pressure gauge and the two step rpm. By now, the staging lane is completely pack again .Might get one more run in. Better make it count.
He does..VR runs a 12.86 @ almost 103 on a 13.45 index. The boys are happy with that on a hot night at a slow track.

https://i.postimg.cc/CKZY9gzS/120704...10193796-n.jpg

NB is horny to race for real now. He'd like to go to Bakersfield in a couple of weeks for the double Divisional but then he puts a pencil to it... 1000 miles, round trip, $ 500 for two entries and fuel. Another $500 for gas @ California prices, etc.
He just can't swing it. He spent or borrowed all he could to finish the car.
Maybe Vegas Div. which is 600 miles round trip.
But then he hears that the local combo series will have an event at Tucson in October.
That's the plan.
The racers in that series voted for head up runs in the eliminator, even though there isn't anyone available for fuel check or to make sure there's no hanky panky going on NB's not worried. He's got to turn on some win lights first.

At the combo, NB is hitting the tree pretty good. First round , against a 9 second S/S car, that guy fell asleep while sitting there so long, and NB wins his first round.
Second round, a big head start, and that guy can't wait that long, and goes red.
NB is having a ball. That is until he realizes he's got to run a b/a turbo TA, heads up , where he promptly gets whacked by two tenths!
Oh, well. NB won some rounds and made a few bucks. He's happy. Now he's going to go home and think about what's next.

Back at VR's on Monday evening , first thing NB says is "I've got to speed that car up for next year. Who makes those tri-y headers, and who to I talk to about getting my heads and manifold "enhanced"?

MY

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

What is a b/a turbo TA.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

That would be a bad azz 80-81 301 Trans Am

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

OK, BUT I heard thru the grapevine that the BA Turbo TA doesn’t have carpet on the floor and isn’t allowed to race in the local combo series .::confused:

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

That's a different one, here in Fantasyland. This one has carpets ;-)

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Yes, but I believe those combos could only be had with a 30 lb. flywheel on the other end, too.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Oh , OK. …!!! I feel better already ..::)

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Some post script observations here ...

For the most part, I wrote this story to illustrate a couple of points.

1, With most of the V8 Chevy combos, there are very little or no parts from the original engine , that would be used to build a semi-competitive car with.
All these changes have been allowed in the last 48 years, yet it's still referred to as Stock Eliminator.
I chose the 283 4 bbl. combo because I'm familiar with it and It's a good one to illustrate my point about using non-original ,or replacement parts.
I could have used the 2 bbl Ford deal instead. Some of those hp ratings are still low enough that you could use a lot of the original parts. In fact, I've advocated it many times, for those who want to build a lower class , V 8 RWD cars, as cheaply as possible. Cheap is a relative word here.
FWD cars could fall under this category also, but they are not as easy as one might think. A lot of the stuff has to be fabricated , or sourced by the builder,..and I don't mean from Jegs or Summit.
I feel that the FWD thing should be a completely different thread from this one.

2, I was in almost the exact same situation as "Joe" was, 50 years ago. Single, living with room mates, working lots of hours, and spending every penny I could make on the race car.
In today's world and economy , I don't see Joe being able to make enough money to finance this car, in less than a year's time. Let alone, putting fuel in it and travel to NHRA races, hundreds of miles away
If you look at a current Nat. entry list, you'll see that a great percentage are either sons, daughters, grand kids or wives of current racer, or people who can now afford to come back in with the factory ringer cars. (Oops..That should be a different thread too)
We're constantly asked where the beginner Stock and Super Stock racers will come from....The way the current rules are, I'll be darned if I know.

Have at it. :-)

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Mark,

As a point of reference, how much did you earn 50 years ago? Also, how much of that went to racing?

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Daren, It's really hard to say about the earnings. I would work out of town (Virginia, Maryland and Delaware), for 3 weeks at a time. Then I'd alternate with the married guys. When I was back home, I'd go racing for a few weeks..Gainesville, Pomona, Columbus and so on.
I was fortunate to win some local eliminators that might buy you a new pair of slicks , or get you to the next race.

By 1975 , S/S was already getting out of hand, with the broken valve springs, and then re-honing all the time.
Stockers got back their headers and slicks back, so I went that way. Those cars were basically, .030 over cast OEM pistons, and a Stocker cam that had to check at lift, duration, overlap, and valve spring pressure .Those engines would last several years, with minor maintenance.. All the goodies we have now, were added ,bit by bit, every year, since. I do believe it was cheaper to race back then , in today's dollar.

As far as how much I spent? You know the answer...All of it!

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Realistically, NHRA in all of it's Eliminators has left the average person behind. There is no longer any Eliminator which could be called "Entry Level" and that includes Jr. Dragster.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Thought Super Street was supposed to be a entry level class

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I was watching Super Street on one of the broadcasts...
It's definitely not what it was in the 80s/90s...
More like Super Gas Lite...

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I really don't know how we can blame NHRA for letting all these costs get out of hand. This has happened in every motorsport except for maybe the 24 hours of Lemons. No one ever said you had to spend as much on a super street engine as a stocker engine. If you look at the " Evolution " of all these classes, it all comes down to someone trying to get ahead of the curve to get a competitive advantage.
Short of having a claimer rule, you will never stop someone from spending their money to go faster or win more rounds.
Racers buy 15k engines for street stocks to win 300 dollars at the local short track, and there are a whole bunch of racers and ex racers that feel that form of racing is ruined too.
Ya just gotta roll with it and keep going. Hopefully the roller lifter effort doesn't win too fast lol

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I was at a Divisional at Tri-State in Iowa a few years ago and was watching the Super classes run. They called up S/Street and here comes a Top Sportsman Mustang with a 715 ci motor throttle stopped to 10:90. It also appeared most of the cars could run at least low 9's. So much for "entry level".

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Duane, Racers will always PUSH the "rules" to their limit! It is the people that MAKE the "rules" responsibility to make sure that the Racers ADHERE to the rules! When the Racers DON'T ADHERE to the "rules",they are supposed to be PUNISHED! That is no longer the case because the people that MAKE the "rules" are no longer in control because of a lack of qualified people to ENFORCE them and a fear of legal action against them.
As Racers, it is our responsibility to PUSH the "rules" to their limit while we still, at the same time ADHERE to them. The NHRA are the people that MAKE the "rules" and it is their (supposed) responsibility to ENFORCE them. When Racers DON'T ADHERE to the "rules" and aren't PUNISHED, whose fault is it? It's not the Racers! They're doing what Racers are supposed to do.
EVOLUTION is what happens when the "rules" can't or aren't being enforced.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Billy,
I may not remember this correctly. Didn't sometime ago NHRA tell some people their heads were illegal because of how much the intake side had been milled to get the port volume correct. Those people said lawsuit and the issue was drop.


Stan

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Oh good. I get to bash a different eliminator for a change LOL

NHRA is the rule making body, correct?
They had a few restrictions in the beginning of S/ST, but then they let them slide,..to get them to chase points, I assume.

Problem is, they never see anything coming ahead of time.
When S/ST started, they could have said ..NO timed throttle stops. Back half-ed cars only , (No weighted down S/G cars). 130 mph max, or you lose. (No need for a cubic inch limit then.) No delay box to slow reaction times.
People might even stay in the stands to watch a few of them, if they did wheelies.
Maybe a few retired Stock racers might have tried it.
But no. By not adding a few simple rules, they let S/ST become something other than somewhat inexpensive and entry level.
No real surprise ...

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I don't honestly know if the lawsuit was dropped. There WAS a lawsuit initiated.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I think Newbie is folding up his computer , headed to his shop with his head hanging down , thinking I'm never going to be able to build a stocker cause all these guy want to do is beat the past to death and not give me any real information on what to do.!!!! tell me factually how to build my own motor , what to use for a rear end and trans and how to set them up , what to do to my suspension to get down track. These guys don't have someone to mentor them and with class racing having a 100 rules you have to follow that you don't know anything about. Overwhelming for a newbie to even think about undertaking ---in my opinion. Class racing with all it's silly a---rules --- or heads up or bracket with whatever I choose . Tough sell to a lot of racers

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

If Newbie finds the right people, some on classracer, some at the track in person, he will find plenty of people to help him get out there to race. A new racer needs to make up his mind what direction he wants to go in. It could be a Billy and Mark car which will get you under the index without spending every dollar you have and more. It could be a v8 combo that could be made to run .5 under to get you out there, with room for improvement as you progress, or an all out effort to run with the Killer B or A crowd.
Sometimes the bitching on this site deter people.
I've had people come up to me and ask if there is anyone really happy classracing after reading posts on here.
I just recently watched a person say they wanted to build a class car on facebook only to be told if he doesn't have 40k for an engine. 50k for a good body, a motor home and a gold rush trailer he should not even try. I jumped in along with Gump, the Worners and a couple others and told that person he had no idea what he was talking about. That I was able to get out and race with some success by the help of some very good people I call my friends. I try to help others the same way.
Sometimes the doom and gloom on this site is not a positive in a sport we complain is dying without new blood.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Newbie finally wakes up from the bad dream he was experiencing. He realizes he doesn’t have enough money to finance a race car where the payout is ridiculous. He can’t imagine sitting around all day listening to old men gripe and complain and only getting 2 time trials if he is lucky and rain isn’t in the immediate forecast. He laughs when he reads the rule book pertaining to cylinder heads because veteran racer told him ALMOST everyone has acid ported heads. He is interrupted by a phone call from his buddy asking him if he would like to go to Tucson to watch some heads up 10.5 inch tire racing , HELL YEAH !!!

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Rulemaking has consequences. Lack of enforcement has consequences. Racing for money creates multiple effects.

How can you drive down the cost of racing in general, not necessarily just stock/super stock?

Please share your thoughts.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Having only been at this game, actively racing I mean, since 2013, I was Joe Newbie not that long ago. A big part of the attraction to class racing for me was the fact that it isn't easy! The fact that the car has to be built to a well-defined set of rules and specs dictates that it's going to take a decent amount of time and money. If I wanted something cheap and easy, I could've put together a bracket car...but that doesn't appeal to me.
I got a lot of help from experienced racers, saved my pennies, wheeled and dealed, and busted *** over a period of 11 years to make it happen.
Started out with a $3,200 engine that wasn't the latest or greatest, but good enough for a tenth under the index on the first run. To say that was satisfying doesn't even come close.
Started off with a truck, camper, and trailer that cost a total of $24,000.
I never added up what it cost to build the car...it just never mattered to see the total, because it was all little chunks spread out over time.
Since I've started racing it, it's been super fun to keep picking at it to make it better and faster, and that's what's so appealing for me.
We racers all have some degree of mechanical "urge" we're hard-wired with. This class racing thing is what satisfies mine.
If it was easy, it wouldn't.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

Here's one I turned up while searching for something else.
Still looking for it.
This will keep you busy for a while in the meantime..


https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...ad.php?t=64827

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I don't think you can. In all forms of motorsports, and even sports in general, money changes everything. When I was a kid, we played little league, and then there was a all star team that did some traveling. It was all pretty local, and wasn't expensive. Now parents spend 10s of thousand of dollars for Travel clubs, showcases, private lessons etc. You will see it in all other sports too.

Look what happened to a sport where you put a mini bike engine in a go kart that looks like a dragster and race against other kids, created by the late Vinny Napp. That original car still exists, and if it didn't have the Castrol GTX paint job that says David Knapp on it, and you showed up to race it, you would be laughed at. The amount of money spent on those engines and cars could buy a decent engine for a stocker. A friend I worked with had home built a 1/4 midget and a jr dragster for his kids in the 90s, he brought them in his pickup truck to the racetracks, by then, most of the kids were already hanging out in their motorhomes inbetween runs, as his kids sat on folding chairs on hot asphalt.

Look around, it's just not classracing.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

I think Paul Merolla’s post is right on the money. I’m a newbie to stock eliminator and haven’t made a single pass yet. I did race in super-street and super-gas for about 15yrs. A .90 car is an easier build than a class car and you can purchase 800hp crate motors for less than my stocker engine. But where is the challenge? It may be in the driving but a lot of us like the engineering/building side of challenge also. I sold my cars and took time off to raise my kids and now it’s time to go racing again. I’m retired and that’s probably we’re a lot of the new class racers will come from as they raid their 401K to build a competitive car. Sure it’s expensive but if thought out and done carefully the money invested won’t totally evaporate.
You guys make stock sound real hard but I’m planning to be legally under the index first time out. A front runner probably not, my goal was to keep the car legal and see how far I can push it even if it ruffles some feathers.

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

We need to bring the old IHRA Crate Motor packages to the NHRA and we will have a new gen of young people filling the lanes. Right now all we have are a bunch of old guys holding the door shut on the new blood that wants in. Oh boy I can see the steam flowing now !!! LOL !!!

Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023
 

we do have crate motor packages. you can run the IHRA crate motors at national opens.
But in reality, the engines offered in the new Copos, Cobra Jets, and Drag Packs can be run in Super Stock. Those motors are more in tune with the younger generation compared to old crate engines from 15 plus years ago.