Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I greatly salute this initiative from Mr. Miele and Mr. Grimm. This is moving in the right direction.
Regarding the purse $$$ situation, If we can’t find a BIG sponsor…how about keeping the amount of purse like they are now and accepting a lot more racers in S/SS category in order to first: lower the inscription cost and second: return the TOTAL AMOUNT of “those inscriptions dollars over the 64/128 field”, right back in the total purse for more $$ to winner, runner up, and paying further down in the eliminator field. Yes, I understand the parking problem down the road and the impact on the schedule, but... it’s just one more suggestion. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Well,as long as we are giving suggestions, how about this?
Why can't the National event entry include ONE crew pass? Is that too much to ask? |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
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This is a great start and hope for the best. Lots of ideas on how to fix the category and classes, however, there will be compromises and cannot please everyone. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
More $. Both divisional and national events
And how about normal tech it’s part of the experience We pay too much $ for very little reward Can be based on car count $200 per class $1500 to win sucks a race. $2500 minimum on an event win national or divisional is not a lot of$ |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
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Mr B, They should have been offering the free crew pass since mid last century. Remember when they only allowed 1 restricted area pass? I'm sure some races were lost due to the person given it not having a clue what to do when something happened yet Pro cars had more "crew" on the line than an NFL team has on the field.😄 |
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Way back in "the Good-old-days", every National Event Entry CAME with 2 (two!!!) crew passes....... for free WITH the Event Entry!
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
And... Why do we have to pay an insurance surcharge for a Natl Event when we have the same risk of an accident regardless of whether we are at a Nat or a Div race? Kinda seems like we are paying the insurance for the Pro cars?
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At least I tried, you couldn't pay me enough to Lonnie's job. I can't imagine what he thinks of us now. James Schaechter's post was well thought out, and gave me hope, but some of you guys.... well I just don't get. God help Stock and Super Stock. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Darren you are wrong about most people not being able to relate with the old cars. Some of the most exciting racing going on in Stock eliminator is a race between a Pinto, or front wheel drive car, and a 8 or 9 second Factory Stock car. The announcers usually give it a big build up. And guess who most of the people in the stands are rooting for. LOL
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I have always respected posts by Daren, this one not so much.
Also Ken is correct, he afforded a rare opportunity to voice constructive feedback and guess what, the typical crap. When was the last time the N.H.R.A. Technical Director sat down for an interview before Lonnie? |
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I believe that Lonnie should try and understand though that there is years if not decades of some Racers feeling neglected, taken advantage of and maybe somewhat abused by some in positions of power in this Sport. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Ken-
I would be happy to share my "customer experience" from this past weekend's Lebanon Valley National Open with Lonnie. Have him give me a call! Dean |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Yes Ken I spoke of the starting line first, it's an easy correctable item and will give the racer value for the moneys spent.
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I have one issue that could easily be corrected but this is also for every class I am by myself at almost all national events when I pull into the water box it seems like everybody turns their back on me
I have no idea where I’m at in the water. I cannot just open my door and look down. Please I’m not bashing but if someone in that group of officials could just keep an eye out for such a thing would be greatly appreciated |
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I think a 64 car qualified would be interesting. Even if there wasn't a quota,I'm thinking there would be some races where they don't even get 64.Then what? A 32 car qualified field?
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
When we had Lonnie on the podcast he expressed that he wished we would just run all out and go as fast as we can so AHFS can do its job. I told him we won't do that unless there is incentive. I propose:
1. Points for qualifying. Minimum 17 qualified cars; same amount for Nationals and Divisionals. 17-32 cars --> Top 3 qualifiers get 3 points, 2 points, and 1 point. 33-64 cars --> Top 4 qualifiers get 4 points, 3 points, 2 points, and 1 point. 65-128 cars --> Top 5 qualifiers get 5 points, 4, 3, 2, and 1 point. 2. Points for setting a record. Maximum 2 records per year. 1st record --> 10 points 2nd record --> 5 points 3. Points for Class Eliminations 2 cars in Class --> 10 points 3-4 cars in Class --> 20 points, 10 RU 5-8 cars in Class --> 30 points, 20 RU, 10 Semi 9-16 cars in Class --> 40 points, 30 RU, 20 Semi, 10 C2 17-32 cars in Class--> 50 points, 40 RU, 30 Semi, 20 C3, 10 C2 4. Higher qualified cars get lane choice. No more coins. Payout calcutta I will address in another post because people don't read long posts haha. Quote:
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I don't get the idea of raising the entry fee when it's too much already. Back when I started racing, there were 20 cars just in my class, so here again I don't get the quotas of 60 cars or less in Stock.
I think that the home division hosting the national event, that that division racer gets 24 hour preference to enter, then the rest of divisions can enter. NHRA say that they will pay the S/SS the extra money with the higher entry, I don't believe it, NHRA will find a way to divert to everything but the racer. Casey Miles 248H Stock |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I think a good place to start is to bump up the quotes for all the nationals , fields make it a 64 car field or more ( I mean would a few more car over a 50 or 60 cars make that much difference ) and take as many enteries as you can could be tried at a few races as a test ? . If they are running class go to a 128 car field , I think we all know some races that would run a national event or two but just don't have the grade points in all of the classes / categories . I never got the quota thing your just turning racers/members / customers a way . Thanks Ken & Lonnie .
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
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I've been doing this off and on for nearly 45 years, I've street raced, bracket raced, super comp raced, and for the last two years have been working on a project to possibly begin racing again... In that time I have watched the price of racing continue to climb, in the last year alone prices on most of the parts I'm buying have gone up a minimum of 20%... Some parts reaching the realm of unobtainium... And yet as entry fees have increased, and what you get for that is gone down in value, the payouts have remained the same for the last what, 30 years?... As this has happened, the NHRA has become more and more "Top Heavy" in management. We as members should not be considered "Customers", but rather stockholders... This is not peculiar to S/SS, but applies to all the sportsman racers... I hope Mr. Grimm is serious about making things better for the racers, I also don't think he has the power to do anything about the stuff at the top of the organization that is the source of all the anguish of the way many perceive they are being treated. He's going to have to have a thick skin to deal with this crowd, and understand where everyone is coming from. I wish him the best in this endeavor, and hope he can help the Class Racing be more enjoyable to everyone and not let it become just another bracket race. I will weigh in on the original topic of what can be done to make S/SS better, (at least what I think I would like to see) in another post as this one has gotten long and somewhat off topic of original post. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Thanks guys for getting us back on tack. Maybe there is hope after all. Lets try to keep the discussion to the points made in the opening post. We can work on the others issues, but its one step at time folks. I think one of the major steps forward... is having a Tech Director that is willing to listen to us, its not going to change over night.
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Given the mode of two races for one tow why not make the first day of the National event a division race and use the qualifying from that race to fill the reduced field for the National event. I don't think the model of Brainerd last year worked at all. That way you get a grade point and a chance to race the National event. It doesn't effect the racers that travel to the "big show" as a semi-pro sportsman but it lets the local a chance to get into the race. Years ago there was a single pit pass with any National event entry the way I remember it. I think that there use to be points for both qualifying and setting a record. The biggest problem I have seen in the years I have raced is the disconnect that the powers that be have to the "members" that are interested in making the "big show" but can't for different reasons, personal, business, logistical.
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It is not the topic of your original post, so I'll say no more on that subject. Ken, feel free to PM me if you want to hear more of my thoughts on this subject. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
So...
Back to original topic... 1) Yes purse needs an increase. No to increase in entry fees. Increase quotas? (Never liked the quota thing, but I understand about parking, but sportsman seem to always be parked in the mud anyway, so...) 2) AHFS will never work without letting this be a performance based system. What I see to fix... Qualified fields, qualifying points/payout, points/payout for setting records. (What ever happened to setting records?) Any or all of the above. 3)Yes Class winners should be in, (Their class win ET used to place on ladder?) Quotas should be raised (at least 80) and qualified fields at least 64 cars. Some races should be possibly more? 4)Shipping weights, probably just leave well enough alone. Some weird stuff is in there but how far off, really? What sort of can of worms would that be after all these years? A/C cars weigh different than no A/C, power vs non power whatever... Shipping weight is different from title weight and actual weight is neither, so... RACERS are not the customer... This is an ASSOCIATION, racers are dues paying members... (IMO: more like shareholders) We should all be working to the original goal of making racing a safe enjoyable sport... AND making NHRA the best place to be doing what we do. The CUSTOMER is the spectators in the stands, or on the couch watching ESPN... So... how do we get more folks in the stands? (subject for another thread possibly) You are very correct, there will always be disagreement, someone will always go away unhappy... Have you seen the news lately?... Hard to get anyone to agree what's for dinner! But there has to be communication and discussion (sometimes heated!) to make things better. Again I support Mr. Grimm in his endeavor to make things better, and do hope he has a thick skin, as he will need it to deal with this issue. Racers live this stuff, and many take it personal. These are just my opinions and people can agree or disagree. We still have that choice. Thanks for giving us a place we can rant and rave about what we love to do, and maybe make racing better most if not all... |
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This is about Joe Lunchpail that supported NHRA Nat's, Divs. and paid his dues for 50 years. Now retired, and didn't inherit the golden wallet. He now finds himself unable to play the g.p. game. Maybe so many years or back history required, ONE g.p., this year or last, then he gets 3 days early entry window for the closest National meet . In other words...NHRA } Dance with the one who brung ya. (hope that didn't sound critical ) |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
As far as increasing entry fees and payouts, I'd be in favor of larger payouts at the 3rd round on up. Even if it's not significant. I mean for some classes 3rd round is either a Final or Semi Final. They pay the same entry as us 7 rounders.
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I can tell you this much. Money 💰 talks. In D4 a few years ago we had 6-8 Comp cars show up. Now we have 25-30 and Ennis is coming up and we probably will have 35-40. A qualifying bonus program was installed and there’s a pot of cash 💰 waiting the top-10 at the end of the season. It’s all about the money. More money more racers!
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
(1) Let’s start with increasing the car Quota at Nationals.
(2) Let’s go back to Tech and Looking at cars. (3) We need to work with NHRA to help improve sportsman racing. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
I have mixed feelings on raising entry fee. I know class racing isn't for the budget minded, but an extra 100 on top of 6+ dollars a gallon for fuel is a hard hit at this time. I also oppose dropping 3rd round money.
I would rather increase the quota where you have to qualify to get in, that would bring more money in, and would bring the performance back into a performance based class if you have to step it up to get in. I would also like to see points or money awarded to #1 qualifiers and setting the record. Also I still can't understand why no one has asked why we can't get records published in ND even if its only twice a year. I did send a couple emails last year but they never got answered. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
What "Rights" do we have as members of NHRA? Not trying to stir the pot but if we have any kind of "Rights" as members it would be good to know what they are, and how we may use them to help direct NHRA in a positive direction from the racers viewpoint. It would be good if Linda Louie, VP and general counsel of NHRA, could give us members a list of "Rights" as members of NHRA 501(C)(6) tax status. If we as members know the rules it will make it so much more easy to work within that framework.
We all want a successful, fair, and transparent sanctioning body. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Please Do Not raise entry fees and start paying more for all rounds and start at 2nd round like it use to be, we don't all get to the final round, but would sure like to know that if I get to the 3rd round I could pay "some" of my expenses
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
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I am a well know abuser of working hard on slow cars but class sure gained a lot of fun when parity was shown when a good slow car was brought to the table. I'm not referring to my under factored truck or any of the other vehicles that have received major gifts, but cars that have had serious effort put into them. The system will work if there was more INCENTIVE. Points for records Points for qualifying position Even the defunct national performer award. I took horsepower to win that more than once. Make a 64 car qualified field and leave Indy 128. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
1. If you are torn down for a 1.20+ pass, and everything checks, and the run is also under the National record NHRA should give you the National record.
2.Split the qualifying into two calls, one for slower cars and one for faster cars..Handicap qualifying runs using the index, little better show for the fans. 3. Entry fee should include at least one crew pass, or at least a discount since when most of us get eliminated we go home-don't stay for the whole event yet crew fee pass assumes we stay. |
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Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
1. I think it’s going to be tough to increase entries. I think the idea of making it 64 qualified field and accepting 80 for quota then use additional money to go to purse. However, any idea here will have its drawback. You have qualified field people will complain they can’t qualify. You increase entry it will be too expensive. We may need to start some polls that require name car number and membership to vote on some of these topics.
2. -1.30 is fine and one review is fine. By giving points for records and qualifying, that would give incentive and help the ahfs work. How about green hat like the pros get for #1 to go with points? Of course $$ would be nice too but would almost need a sponsor to do that which has been done at divisionals. 3. Indifferent on all class winners getting in I can see both arguments. Fwd car comes in wins class going -.50 and qualifies but #129 is a competitive C/SA that’s -.90 but doesn’t get to race. On the other hand the fwd car did win class. 4. Shipping weights. This has a major effect on a lot of people. There are plenty of shipping weights incorrect for a variety of reasons (paper cars, wrong info submitted, or just errors) NHRA accepted the weights so it’s not racers faults for following the guide. Making changes to weight would force some out of their current classes. To me if you do away with it there’s no more arguing what weight is correct and what weight isn’t. I would be willing to bet not many cars would move a significant amount. Ones that have shipping weights that are close to correct probably can’t get light enough to move two classes from their current class. Let’s take a popular car for example 69 Camaro 350 255hp combo. Minimum in F is 3110. I’m not very familiar with the weights of these cars personally, but just from talking with others most can’t get near that minimum. Another argument is a heavy driver may only be able to fit the heaviest class and he may want to run a little another class up. Or vice versa, a very light driver may not want to add a bunch of weight. Regardless of the outcome of any of this at the end of the day you have to play by their rules, but if changes are made it should be because the vast majority wants the changes. |
Re: Lets talk NHRA Stk/SS with Lonnie Grim - Ideas - Comment
Most class eliminations are being done at Divisional's this year. And if it's at a National with a small quota you would get to run in the eliminator anyway. Indy may be the only race that this could affect those solo combo's. But the last 2 years at Indy every class winner qualified. Don't see the need to change this.
I know several will not be in favor of raising the instant hit to 1.30 under. How about it stay's at 1.20 unless it's a mine shaft race and then it goes to 1.30 under. The index's are soft and have been for several years now. I know we don't want to discourage any new racers and those that for whatever reason can't get their car to go faster. The index's should really get lowered by 2 or 3 tenths. But to not discourage those that can't get their car to go that fast at least look at 1 tenth lowering. It would also help bring the AHFS up to date with all the enhancements NHRA has given most of us the last 15 years. BP |
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