Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Mr. CBS, is the SRAC, still active? Maybe if it is, this would be a idea that should be brought up with the association, in that a 7.90 class maybe a thing to look into. Seems like there is some interest. Also, when you ask about the 7.90, try and see if they can get the re certification of the window nets move back to at least 5 years. The people I talked to at the association, stated, that they did not have any warning or advance notice and don't have a clue of why it is at two years. :o

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Never had to replace or recertify a window net since I've been racing. never even had it looked at. Why don't we put all the classes together and hand out shoe polish, oh wait , that's been done, forever.
I got the beer, dos vettes, come on over Rock

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

You don't need the Adv ET safety until you hit 7.50. That's why I suggested 8.00. But whatever...

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Your right Chris, my bad. Lets call it a dumb ***** attack!

Someone made a good point, as fast as the new s/ss are going super gas does not look so super. And 8 second ss wont make super comp look so competative. I believe that Top Sportsman and Top Dragster have some interest because they are fast enough and no stops.

I wonder if this does not take the conversation back too, what lies ahead? Back to the future, what will keep our sport viable? Dont forget if no one is making good money we wont have a place to race.

Creating a 4th super class would fill a void without hurting those that have (all in) their current class. But dont forget that outside of racing the super classes are the dumbest looking thing to watch, and crazy to understand, just because we think and know how tough it is. Still boring for fans.

Some divisions are short cars now a 4th class is going to take from other super classes. I wonder if our beloved super classes are not doomed, certainley a 4th class would be a tough sell to anyone.

Amoung my crazy thoughts/dreams of a new sanctioning body, at the heart of it lies this.

Do you need TV, it never hurts. Pinks suggests yes, but ADRL makes it without much.

A big purse draws a crowd of racers and a big enough crowd of racers will draw others in. Also Location Location, run events where drag racing is a big deal. Take Norwalk as a perfect example.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Ah Jeff......... if you were "King"...................."Life would be Good" (racing). lol
I too wonder what the future holds. ?? We hurt our motor @ the classic, and I don't know if I can justify the expense of a new bullet ??

I wish you could organize a sanction................. SHRA.. what ya think ?


Rick

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

SHRA......................... "Sportsman Hot Rod Assoc."


lol

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

On another forum, someone posted this from 48 years ago:

http://www.surfphotonh.com/photos/i-...-ZSpBPx8-L.jpg

First of all, the answer to the question is, clearly, yes.

But note the breathless quote in the bottom left: "180+ in a quarter mile!". That was a record, with a couple of people in the world who could do it.

Today, there are people in SC who do 180+ with their car on a throttle stop for 1/3rd the track. It's not hard to build a car that'll do 180+, any Tom-Dick-Harry can build one with off-the-shelf parts, or with a call to any of a dozen engine builders. There are probably 10,000 cars in the country that can do it.

Yes, it was really cool back then. But we have guys here, and on every drag racing forum, insisting we go back. Get rid of electronics. Stick with pushrod V8 carburetor cars. Screw the "rice burners". The indexes we had 20 years ago are fine. They stopped making cool cars just seven years after this cover.

The only thing constant is change. Get used to it.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I was surprised to see this thread turn this direction.
looks to me that the .90 class racers are getting tired of the treatment and enhancements & being neglected. (taken for granted as filler & cash cow) The S/SS guys have cried about the way they were treated for quite a while. That is one reason I helped Alex put on the US Class Nationals.
Is it time for us to have another racing venue?
I'm in if it is...

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Does anyone think Index racing as presented in D2 now has a chance of being the future? Heads up racing , no stops, fast cars and dragsters would have their own index type scenario.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Non-electronic Index Classes and Fast Heads-Up classes are the future.

Indy RAGE at Lucas Oil Raceway in Indianapolis is most likely one of the best examples of what will work going forward.

The cost of growing any sport will either be carried by the fans or the particpants. Throttle Stops and bracket racing have given the luxury of carrying the financial burden of growth to the participants.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I don't think it will. As the year went on they had less and less in each class. How is it going to survive when each class probably averaged less than ten cars. I'm not doubting that it may be a challenge to dial your car, but that is where the problem will be. The ones that struggle to dial their car will stop going. Most everyone in the super classes can dial their car. Now it becomes cutting a light and driving the strip.
Chuck

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Can't we get back to why Tommy D is ......xxxx
Ok Rock what does that mean !!!!!!!! Or I should not ask????Lol

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Tommy, I've been wondering the same thing. First throat surgery, Now multible hospital stays. Next year are you going to be Tammy De? lol
Chuck

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Just trying not to beat the dead horse again.....

Speeding up the indexes would do what....make you feel better?.....Or just raise the speeds another 5 mph...and then everyone would complain how the speeds are out of hand and a limit needs to be put in place.....lol...not sure what your goal is with speeding up the indexes.....I just don't see it....we voted on it last year and it was voted down....

We have pretty good motors in our cars....and the dragster runs 186 at 890 and our car runs 168 at 990....how fast would they go at 8.00 and 9.00....don't even start with talking about increasing the spectator appeal...or participation....people just don't care about anything but fuel cars.....they hardly watch pro stock....and you're worried about not understanding the throttle stop racing.....

Chris...look what you started....lol

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Unless you have a mesh style window net, they don't expire. The ribbon type (most common) are good forever. Or until they fall apart. I have argued this with a couple of tech officials. It's right there in the rule book.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

The new rule book ???

Don't think so.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

It appears I stand corrected. They must have changed that, because it used to only be for mesh type. I actually had that pointed out to me when getting my chassis certified. He told me I didn't have to worry about my net since it was the ribbon style. But that was a few years ago. I checked the new rule book at it does appear it's been changed. If anyone knows different, let me know.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Not trying to be a smart *** but since you are a SRAC member, how long do you think the index should stay at 8.90 ? Forever ?

In 1985 when I started, a dragster that went 8.60-8.70 was a pretty quick car. At any bracket race you were either the fastest or close to it. Today an 8.70 dragster at a bracket race is not only the slowest dragster there it is also slower than 1/2 the door cars.

I agree that you will not get spectators even at a 6.90 index (now we're talking:D). But how do you explain to a newbie you bring along to the races why that Mustang AAA/S stocker and many SS cars just went quicker than your dragster goes ?

A new 7.90 class will NEVER happen as the track operators want less payout not more. It would just be less S/C cars.

The result of the vote taken was that the majority of the S/C racers wanted the index lowered. They just did not agree on what to lower it to. The way that vote was presented, the outcome was determined before the vote was taken with 3 options.

So how long do we keep 8.90 ???

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Why change it????

Because a stocker or super stocker can go that fast has nothing to do with Super Comp....

My vette is much more violent than my mustang but much slower in ET...so what.....is this an ego thing...(that wasn't a shot at you) but it just drives the cost and speed up....and its still the same...just quicker...

we have bigger issues like seat belts and window nets and the cost to go to the races in general....

Race in TD if you want to go fast....that's why it was brought on....

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Rock,

Not trying to switch topic but, but how is it that S/St pays the same entry fee and the payout is $200. less than S/G & S/C ?
Does the "entry level" apply here ?

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I like the way you think Bob, an entry level entry fee!! Works for me. 20 percent off!

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Make all the Pro trees .500. That will allow a heavy car to run in SG

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

How about only Red cars in S/ST and S/G just saying.....

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I'm ok with that. Lol
Chuck

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Winter depression must be setting in. Just listen to us. I doubt the window nets ever wear out just like seat belts. But the manufactures have more to do with the rules than they should have. The whole sfi is as corruptable as our very own government. It is all about money, NHRA is a buisness and kinda gready. Wally Parks wanted a safe place for us to race, it got BIG and the current state of racing is what we have. Not only are there no answers that fit all, I doubt we could all agree on a cup of coffee.

If you want it simple, bracket race.

Fair racing on a level platform takes a lot of rules, just look at comp eliminator. For the rest of us, electronics is the great, cheap, equalizer. We choose to go faster and quicker.

just me 2 cents, Merry Christmas to all, Jeff

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Now neck braces too ?

http://sfifoundation.com/38.1ExpirationDates.pdf

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Yep, just sent my HANS in for re-cert, they have to replace the tethers and the quick connects.
Here is the link if anyone needs it....just scroll down to the re-cert details.

http://hansdevice.com/shop_online/HA...nd-Accessories

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I did look at the quick reference card NHRA sent out and it clearly reads "mesh type" window nets. It does not reference ribbon type.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Look at the date on that (reference card). The one they sent me must have been a left over. lol
Chuck

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

The neck collars are spec 3.3 and I don' t see a expiration date for them yet. The SFI spec 381 is for the neck restraint system and it looks like five years. I will have to try to look for the SFI spec 3.3 and see if it expires. SFIfoundation.com is the website:(

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Thank you. And for your door car guys, they have a class called Top Sportsman that you may have heard of.

And don't forget, there's also Comp Eliminator too if you want to go fast in your dragster OR door car....

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I see both sides of this. But would like to add the following comments.

1. Going faster WILL NOT bring in more spectators. The tracks need to do this. Most of the tracks we race at do a very poor job of marketing our events. Look at Norwalk, they do a great job and they get spectators. I don't think we will EVER pack the stands, but we could have a few more with some help from the tracks. But to be clear, changing the class will not help.

2. I do see where people are coming from about the indexes being 25+ years old. All the other classes have adjusted several times since inception. I would not be opposed to making the classes faster and I think round numbers would be a great idea.

3. Ultimately I will race the classes regardless of what they do. I am there for me, not for the fans.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I agree with all three points. On #1, I'll agree that it won't bring in more spectators, but it will confuse/annoy the one's who are there substantially less. It's annoying for racers and fans to be on the stop for 1/3rd of the run. If it was just a second or so, I think we'd all like it more.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

If you really want to see how receptive the racers are to this idea, run a single non-sanctioned race with the lower indexes and see how that works out. I can tell you EXACTLY how it will work out:

Super Comp

• Lower the index to 8.00
• All the drivers that can't go at least 8.00 won't show up - dragsters will have no place else to race except ET classes
• A good portion of the field will be on the stop for about 1 second, and will immediately realize that they're now the slowest cars in the field, and that it COMPLETELY SUCKS to be chased on every single run
• The cars that can run 6.80 to 7.30 will pretty much dominate, and the slower cars will go away saying, "I either need to spend a bunch of money to speed my car up, or I'm not coming to one of these races again."

Super Gas

• Lower the index to 9.00
• All the drivers that can't go at least 9.00 won't show up - most of the door cars couldn't make the 2600 lb. or 2800 lb. weight limit in S/St
• A good portion of the field will be on the stop for about 1 second, and will immediately realize that they're now the slowest cars in the field, and that it COMPLETELY SUCKS to be chased on every single run
• The cars that can run 7.80 to 8.30 will pretty much dominate, and the slower cars will go away saying, "I either need to spend a bunch of money to speed my car up, or I'm not coming to one of these races again."

Super Street

• Lower the index to 10.00
• All the drivers that can't go at least 10.00 won't show up - they won't have any other place to race except ET classes
• If you institute no weight limit for S/St, more former S/G competitors would drop down to S/St, but many existing S/St drivers would drop out completely because of what they would feel would be an unfair advantage to lighter cars
• A good portion of the field will be on the stop for about 1 second, and will immediately realize that they're now the slowest cars in the field, and that it COMPLETELY SUCKS to be chased on every single run
• The cars that can run 8.80 to 9.30 will pretty much dominate, and the slower cars will go away saying, "I either need to spend a bunch of money to speed my car up, or I'm not coming to one of these races again."

So, by lowering the indexes I see that you will accomplish 2 things:


1. Drive competitors away
2. Force competitors that stay to spend more money if they want to be competitive


Sounds like a GREAT idea!


OR, you could leave S/C, S/G, and S/St alone, create a new 7.90 category, and the racers that WANT to go faster can CHOOSE to go race in that new class (rather than forcing every .90 driver in the country to change). Alternatively, you can say screw the new 7.90 class...if somebody wants to go faster, they can spend THEIR money to go faster in T/S, T/D, or Comp Eliminator.


And my opinion is NOT self-serving. My Corvette goes 9.30's at 2600 lbs., so I could easily run 10-flat S/St if that's what it came down to. The new dragster I'm building should go 7.20's, so I wouldn't have any problem running 8-flat S/C either (at least initially, until the arms race started again). I just don't see the benefits to lowering the indexes, and driving existing (mostly low-budget) competitors out of the sport.

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

That full page rebuttal by Jason should certainly be the final word. NO CHANGE, EVER . Moderator close the thread. :D

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

:)

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

OK would one of the stir crazy racers please start a new thread that we can all banter about. Jason needs to write essay's, or he wouldn't be Jason. :)

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I'm ready to close it.....he's right......

Except that he forgot to mention the higher speeds.....


Can't we move on....

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

I will start a new thread.....lol

Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times?
 

Why dont we just try............................................... .. and that will work.