Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

I dont remember Jim Morgan ever splitting a C-6 case in his SS/GA Mustang. Neither did Bill Hawk when running one in his 71-72 351 Mustang. Both cars did large wheel stands and ran fast but Im sure some had problems.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Enough of a problem that Ford had Holman & Moody make a billet gridle for the pan rail and B & M later had one in their Catalog amd advt it to help cure the problem

In the race parts warehouse at H & M they use to stock bare C-6 case for the factory supported racer's I bought 25 FE Cases and 25 429 style cases when the had the closeout sale at H & M for $20.00 each

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

WHICH story; the real one, or the Denysenko fairytale about the EPA numbers that dictated C-4 transmissions in a bunch of Ford pickups to be sold in Canada??????? Fabrication at its finest...

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Hey Deadman,

If you want to discuss something with me please call days.

219-861-1214

or send a e-mail with your number and a time and I will call you on my own dime.

monymkrssla@aol.com


Otherwise, stick to your red light babble and leave me out your diatribe on this topic or on any other public forum.
What little respect I had left for you is now completely gone so no need for you to respond on this thread.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Am glad I LIKE ALEX & BETH! :)

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Lets not forget about Tony. He too is a good egg !

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

lol.......................................

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

R/T,

The '6' factory prepped 68 Dart GTS cars were not Mr. Norms Darts.

Mr. Norms were GSS (383 equipped cars with a 440 conversion).
Found some pricing (in Mr. Norm's advertisements) of $3750.
Ad includes, special performance tuning, and Dyno'd.

I posted some misinformation, as there are several conflicting
articles about these cars.

pc

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Wouldn't waste my time...

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Hay Bill, Left yourself wide open. "You wouldn't waste your time" but you spend countless days yelling about a crap red light BS Go figure. I would rather talk to Alex.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

You like listening to fairytales, Bob? Get him to tell you his unexpurgated version of how the FE/C4, "never-never" Ford OEM bell housing came to be. You may change youir mind...

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

If it comes down to believing written facts or some part guy's memory then I'll take the facts and if I have to believe a guy's words it would be Al K's over anyone.

JimR

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Apparently Alex or somebody provided the documentation to NHRA. NHRA accepted it, published it and the racers live by it.
The first step somebody took was "submitting a letter" to NHRA. That Bill Dedman, is something I don't you doing. Capable? yes. Doing? That seems to be another story.
And with all your preach of civility on the red light issue, why in the same month do you come to this thread and go out of your way to defame somebody?
Just one more instance were you put your nose where it doesn't belong.
As I recall, you were a newspaper editor? If so, it all fits.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Yes, the documentation was approved by NHRA, and everything else you say is true including the fact that NHRA acceptance has paved the way for yet another bogus part to find its way onto the "legal" status in NHRA's "paper car" list of "gee-whiz/never -knew-that" litany of mytholigical parts that seem to materialize, from time-to-time.

What you don't seem to understand about my intererest in this, and my comments relative to it, is this: I have NO PROBLEM with the C-4/F-E bellhousing, how it got accepted by NHRA, who was involved in getting it "legalized," or anything else about it.

I fully support a bellhousing such as this for Ford BECAUSE of the GM cars, near-comprehensive interchangability of transmissions such as Metric 200s/350 T-H's/400 TH's, et al, on different blocks, and the ability to use Torqueflite 904 internals in a 727 case, enabling the low-drag 904 mechanical drivetrain hooked to a B or RB Mopar engine, legally. I have never objected to a C-4 bellhousing that would enable the "small transmission" connection to the FE motors. Never.

What I DO object to is being led down the primrose path by Alex , using a crock-and-bull story that had NO basis in fact, but was presented to me as the "real story" about how those hacked-up-and welded bell housings came to be.

I don't like being lied to.

If you think I came on here to "defame" Alex, you're wrong. I have a ton of respect for him AND his brother, and will never forget the monumental effort put forth to bring about the "CLASS RACER NATIONALS" and its successful conclusion against all odds.

No, there's no defamation in facts. I was just sorry that he would find it necessary to use his more-than-fertile imagination to fabricate such a tortuous and unnecessary story about how that bellhousing came into being.

I was born in the morning, but it was not yesterday morning.

Let me reiterate; I am GLAD the FE Ford cars have access to the C4; I think it's only fair, given the almost unlimited access the G.M. cars, and big-block Mopars have to the smaller, low drag transmissions.

But, if you wnt to be entertained, just ask Alex how that FE/C4 bell housing became a legitimate part...

Myself, I'd rather have the truth. Well, he'll probably tell YOU the truth...

Insofar as "submitting a letter to NHRA," (and, this is relative to my "blabbering" about the red light rule change,) I have told you and several others on this board, more than once (actually, I think it's more like 3 or 4 times) that RIGHT NOW is NOT a good time to be doing this, and I have listed several reasons why. I think, however, that the notes that explained why it needs to be done, were a good way to spread the word about why it's unfair to treat different cars differently with regard to red light jeopardy...

I must not be the only one who believes that, because the thread disappeared in a puff of paranoia, although it was I believe, the second (or, third?) most popular thread EVER on this BB.

Gee, I wonder who was afraid it was gaining traction to the extent that it was possibly going to actually have a chance of becoming "law," which would not have been a good thing is one were running a AA/SA car..... hmmmmmm.....

Can't see any other reason for deleting an entire thread that had so much participation...

Another thing; I worked for the newspaper industry for 40 years, but never in the Editorial department. I worked as a foreman in the Production department for the Des Moines Register (16 years) and the San Francisco Chronicle (24 years.) Blue collar guy...

And, there's only one "A" in Dedman. :)


Then, lastly, there's this:

"Just one more instance were you put your nose where it doesn't belong."

What was the first one? This BB was designed by Ken Miele for people to post notes who aren't currently "Class" Racers. That's ME. I have two Bracket cars (one finished, one 80-percent done,) BOTH of which are 100% subject to the red light rules as they are practiced and enforced in Class racing. I don't know of ANY tracks currently utizing a double red light system, on ANY kind of handicap racing.

But, if NHRA should (fat chance) go to a double red light system, you can bet your booties, all the other tracks will, too. So, it's within my (and everybody else's) interest, to see that it gets changed.

In view of the fact that this new system would give an advantage to NOBODY, (and, that's a fact!) how could any fair-minded person, object????

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Dammit, I was getting interested in the 68 Darts with the 440's in them because I know you could get the car as an M code in 69, and now ya'll started discussing Fords, what the hell, let's get back to the Darts. Is the combo (the 68) legal for stock or not?

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Sorry; my bad. Is tyhe car you want to race in the online NHRA stock car classification guide? I would think that is it's in the guide, the guide will show the factored horsepower-to-shipping weight ratio to demonstrate what class it will naturlly fall into.

If it's not in the classification guide with that engine, then I'd think it can't be run with that engine... Unless, there's a mistake. Take a look....

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

No. But it IS legal for SS in a GTS 2 dr HDTP or convertible.
SS factor is 8.89 / shipping weight is 3208 / factored HP is 361 for Hdtp.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Jeff is exactly right. Can not run a 68 in Stock eliminator. Our 68 Dart can run SS/E-GA.

Gary Hansen
SS/EA 4911

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Thanks Bill, Jeff and Gary. I was following this thread with interest, hoping a 440 could go in my old 68, but it is not in the classification guide...Oh well. In 69 trim I don't think it would be very competitive..I have been talked out of finishing the Dakota for stock, and that leaves me with the 64 Dodge or the 65 Valiant. The 65 Valiant is looking tempting, since I believe that I read the HP has been lowered to 210 by NHRA. Really low shipping weight too. Plan on having something ready by next year. I can't bring myself to turn my 64 into a racer. Thanks for clarifying some points.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

What is wrong with converting to a '69?

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Charlie Smith and his cousin Steve Wann built a 69 and it held

the National Record with a 440 and was a terror in class until he sold

it in 2009 to someone in Canada I think.

I Replied to you PM. Welcome to message me any time you would like to.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Looks like some of the resposnses on this thread are getting
close to the 'red line'.

And many of the magazine articles do print incorrect information
on the 68 Darts with the 440.

Fact,,,,,,,,automatics only from the factory

pc

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

http://images32.fotki.com/v1045/phot...trailer-vi.jpg
http://rides.webshots.com/album/557108778WGeTzi?start=0

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Hemi Moose,

Notice on Dick Landy,s Dart.
Still has the full exhaust system (circa 1968) with chrome-tipped extensions.
Hooker fenderwell headers.
Drum brakes too.

That car won the Total Points in Super/Stock for 1968.
With Bob Lambeck at the helm, they won 7 or 8 straight
Super/Stock Points meets on the west coast.

Eventually ran 11.60's in 1968.

Paul

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Here's another one of Mancini's 1968 440 Dart GTS...

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...40Dartin68.bmp

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Hemi Moose
Nice photo:)
Ron Mancini 68' 'Bee Leaver' at the 1968 Springnationals.

Unfortunately in the SS/EA Class Championship.
Lance Hill in his 68' 396/325 HP Camaro coupe edged Ron's Dart
for the Class Trophy.

Lance got him with a 'holeshot'.
Ron was 'tad' late on the lights at Englishtown.

PC

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Here's another shot of Landy's 68 440 Dart GTS in the pits along with the back end of his 68 Hemi Dart, notice the difference in the wheel well openings of both cars.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7...ingnationa.jpg

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Can't forget some of the others, this is Charlie Allen's 1968 440 Dart GTS, although it still has the 383 emblems on the fender. Does anyone here know when they made the motor swap.
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2...lebackdart.jpg

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Engine swap performed at Ted Spehar's Woodward Avenue Garage,
in January 1968 (first week).

The conversion was done, once Chrysler Performance got approval from the NHRA on Januray 4, 1968.

A 'minimum' of '6' SS/EA cars had to be produced, to get NHRA Super/Stock proto-type approval for the 68 NHRA Winternationals at
Pomona.

Factory-prepped 440 engines, with Hooker fenderwell headers installed.

pc

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

I've got a question, I know almost everyone into Mopars has heard of Mr. Norm's from Grand Spaulding Dodge in Chicago and the 1968 Dart GSS he built, but I'll have to admit I've never heard of any 1967 Dart GTN or the GTN-1. Is that what they called them back in 1967, because I've seen several 1967 Dart GTS restored over the years but never any GTN or GTN-1's, has anyone else.

http://www.moparts.org/moparts/picture/ads/ad4/13.jpg

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

GT-N = GT Norm.
First one was actually a 66 GT just to show the engineers it could be done.

Early 67 Dart GT with 273 converted to 383 in house at the dealership using custom fenderwell headers and some other aftermarket parts. I'll have to find out what else.
This is before the factory would do them. Most of you Mopar guys know that the 67 GTS was a late model year introduction. January or February I think.
Norm tells the story often of how the factory engineers told them that you could not fit a B motor into a A body car without major mods. The dealership mechanics did it with existing parts and then Norm and his brother drove the car to Hamtramk to show the factory people. The GTS was born shortly thereafter.
GT-N-1 was a 440 car. It was going to be a street Hemi but the factory nixed it for obvious reasons.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Hmm, that's funny because I don't recall Mr. Norm building any 66 Darts with a big block, but I could be wrong. I always thought he started off using the 67 model to do the engine swap, and I still never heard the terms GTN & GTN-1 ever used either, anyone else?

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

I believe the first 67' 383 GTS Darts were built in February 1967.

And the driver side (left side) special exhaust manifold was designed by
Arlon Vanke.

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

I wish you well with the '65 Valiant, and I look forward to seeing pictures of it in action!!! :)

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Both cars are WAY UP THERE ON THE COOL-O-METER (per Bob Frey)...I'd be happy racing either of them!!!

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

The photo of Dick Landy's cars,
The Hemi Dart and SS/EA 68' 440 Dart are from
New York National Speedway.

July 21, 1968; The 1968 Super/Stock Magazine Nationals.

Bob Lambeck drove the SS/EA Dart when it was on the west coast.

Hit 11.60's in April 1968.

pc

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Here's a Cragar mag wheel ad with Dick Landy's 1968 440 Dart GTS SS/EA.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/...8d6b7e37_z.jpg

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Here's another one of Dick Landy's 1968 440 Dart GTS in the pits
or parking lot some where's.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/...87d6a940_o.jpg

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

That shot is from the pit side at Raceway Park, Englishtown, NJ during the 1968 Springnationals.

M68

Re: 1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)
 

Just a little conversation with Paul C on these 1968 Dart GTS 440 equipped A-bodies...

PC;
I'll try to dig up the one article I have on the special
68' 383 GTS (w/440 conversion) for SS/EA.

From what I recall, The SS/B and SS/BA Hemi A-bodies were not going to be ready (NHRA-approved) until the 68' Springnationals.

Chrysler got wind of Ford putting together (and getting NHRA approval) for the SS/E and SS/EA 68' Cobra-Jets.

Dick Maxwell got Tom Hoover to rush through '6' 440 Darts under NHRA guidelines, the 440 engines had to be installed at the factory, not
an out-sourced shop.

They were quick-fitted at the factory, and shipped over to Ted Spehar's Woodward Avenue Garage. Both Dick Landy and Charlie Allen drove to Michigan in early-January to pick up their cars.

Dick Landy re-did his car out in his California shop, and Charlie Allen ran his just the way it was set-up.


HM;
Thanks good stuff PC, if you can scan it and post it in the 68 Dart SS/EA thread that would be great... Also I can't seem to find anymore info or photo's on any of those other 68 440 Dart GTS's that they made for SS/EA or any other class. Do you have anymore info or photo's of the Rockville Center Dodge Dart GTS and some of the other 68 440 Dart's (or 68 440 Barracuda's), that is if they even made any of those for SS/EA.