Re: Red light survey
 

I agree with you Mike that there are more pressing issues that affect S/SS racing more than this, but does Glendora seem to care about the more pressing issues? I think not given that in just the last 3yrs:

1. Entry fees for national events have increased $65 bucks...from $240 to $305!

2. Indexes were lowered by 3 tenths of a second.

3. Oil down penalties will be accessed against us now (even though most of them are caused by racers in other classes...mainly the pros).

4. Contingency posting dollars have gone down, but....

5. The regulations for Automatic tranny racer contingencies has gone up.

I could name more, but I named enough reasons, since none of them seem to matter.

Re: Red light survey
 

Gary, I don't have a fast car. Low tens in SS means I'm leaving first most of the time. Seldom give a spot. Still don't see a problem. I prefer leaving first.

Re: Red light survey
 

Gary your lack of comprhension of numbers is incredible.The 33 votes was offset by the votes for basicly leaving things alone.
The percentage has stayed more or less the same since the poll was a few hours old.It's been at 28% for your welfare rules change.
Stop using liberal/progressive math.

Re: Red light survey
 

Oh and by the way Ed, because I know you're reading this (and that you were talking about me too), and it has NOT been 3-4 years since I raced last...my last race was just 2wks after your fun at Indy last year, and my most recent Stock Eliminator race was just 11 months ago, so just like you're apparently a flap jack short of a full stack on other topics, so are you on this one...hardy har har!!!!

So you have 2 grade points in 4 years.That doesn't even register in the grade point
standings.Since your math is a bit skerered that's 1/2 point a year.Bang,zoom to the moon Alice.

And what's my Indy fun?The margarita's seem to be kicking in.

Re: Red light survey
 

How about this: "This lopsided rule has been screwing the first car to leave for 48 years; isn't it time we FIXED the problem, since we now CAN?"

I didn't see anything worded like THAT in the poll.

That is the flip side of
"WTF Let's concentrate on the REAL problems;" implying very strongly, that this existing situation is NOT a REAL PROBLEM.


It's a HUGE problem, mainly, because it's so unnecessary.

My Jouralism professor in college spent a whole week on semantics, and how they skew the outcome of so-called "POLLS." Your poll is a texbook case in "leading the respondent."


What does my Bracket car have to do with this, anyway? They won't fix the problem at the local track until it gets fixed in NHRA racing.

If you don't want non Class-Racer folks responding (voting) on your poll. post it on the board that is for Class Racers only. This board is for everyone.... remember?

Re: Red light survey
 

maybe its finally sinking in. To most class racers, there are MUCH bigger issues. And as I have said many times over stock and ss are not the test bed for this new rule. If it is going to be don, how about trying it in the NHRA Summit Bracket series, you know, where BRACKET racers race. If it were successful there, then it could migrate over. you are not talking about a "stock/ss"issue" you're talking about an issue for all of bracket racing. since you think everyone should be for this, why don't you start a grass roots movement among your peers (read: bracket racers) and see if you can get it changed over there. But please, for the love of God, let us class racers deal with issues that actually have to do with our classes and are important to us.

Re: Red light survey
 

I deep stage all the time with my bracket car because it will not leave like a race car, I drive it to and from the track and it gets 25 mpg. (01 Corvette) The only thing about deep staging is that the car is positioned differently on the starting line. What would happen if they took the prestage light away, most people would never find the starting line. "Pre"stage means before you are staged, and that is it. The problem with the people thinking that deep staging is not right is because that is what they were taught. You don't have to wait for me or any of my friends to deep stage, we are usually in before you have even done your burnout.

Casey Miles
248H Stock?

Re: Red light survey
 

This is true, unless you are racing against someone whose sole purpose in life is to try and screw with deep stagers. Even if they had to totally change their routine to do it. They know who they are. After they got rid of deep staging I'm surprised they still raced. What's left in life if you can't F with deep stagers?


-Toby

Re: Red light survey
 

BTW Toby, thank you for the Pomona coverage.

In D2 Summit racing finals, sometimes it's a race just to the starting line for the deep stagers. I'm pretty set in my ways with my routine, not much bothers me. So they can try to mess around, but I've been doing it so long that unless the starter makes me back out, I'm staged ready to go.
Some day just for messing with people, they should turn off the prestage lights, then you'll see alot the people who know how to stage and the ones that need the all the lights, bells and whistles to get it done.
Casey Miles
248H Stock?

Re: Red light survey
 

Bill you're a BRACKET RACER not a class racer.Do what Chad said and lobby NHRA for the change in the bracket program.
You can respond with suggestions and I can counter them.Yoy're not being muffled,just remember what you suggest affects others not you.Go on the Bracket section and make
all the suggestions you want,for the type of racing YOU DO.

Re: Red light survey
 

Eddie, Be nice .Remember, this section is for fans too.
Without a few fans, ....... ya got nuttin'

Re: Red light survey
 

Mark if you were a baseball player and the fans said you had to give all the lousy teams a fourth out every inning what would you think?That's what his "opinions" add up to.Think about it.
I don't go on the bracket section and try to meddle in their business.In the early 90s when electronics went wild in bracket racing I did'nt like it.Voiced my opinion.Didn't change anything.I stopped racing till I started in Stock.Now the crap is starting up again

Re: Red light survey
 

Ed,

I don't know why you are specifically calling me out. I'm not one of the poeple constantly harping on this particular rule. I think it makes sense to change it, but have never gone around making that case to anyone. I really don't care.

I've almost always had a slower car and have done plenty well with the rules the way they are, and it makes no difference to me one way or the other.

LOL@Bob Gullet

Re: Red light survey
 

[QUOTE=.Bill you're a BRACKET RACER not a class racer. Tell me the difference in the waay I am treated on the starting line, with regard to red lights.. Please.
Is there any difference?

If there is, tell me what it is. If I'm the slower car, and leave first, if I red light, the second car to leave gets a free ride to the next round. Is that any different for you?

I don't think so.

So, the fact that I'm running a Bracket car and you're running a Class car makes no difference at all; we both get screwed by the same, lopsided, rule.

You and I both got a chance to red light, and he did not.

This makes NO sense... Everybody should have the same chance at a red light.

The way it is, the second car is prevented from having his chance, if either you or I red light, first.

Tell me: 1. How that is in any way, fair, and 2. what diference it makes if I'm a Bracket Racer or a Class Racer; we both suffer the same fate.




I'm listening.

Re: Red light survey
 

Very simple.You have your rules to follow when bracket racing and we have ours as class
racers.I'm not stopping you from petitioning NHRA,IHRA or whoever from getting the rule changed for BRACKET RACING.

If anyone here thinks my reasoning is wrong please tell me.I'm tired of getting through to this guy.

Re: Red light survey
 

Ed why are you bothering with all this. You know they aren't going to change anything. That is why I haven't got interested in this. Let those that want to knock temselves out.
Have some fun in the lounge.

Re: Red light survey
 

what you fail to grasp is that class racers have much bigger fish to fry when it comes to rules, or issues that affect class racing. I guess that this is the biggest issue you have with bracket racing, or maybe what the guy in the other lane had for dinner.

If bracket racing followed the rule as you would like to see it, and class racing was different then you would have a) a valid point, b) empirical evidence. As it stands you are annoying class racers who really do have bigger issues to deal with, especially as NHRA continues to "enhance" us. I do understand wanting to change a rule you think is wrong, hell i think race seats should be legal, and the DP/CJ cars should have an intellectually honest factor. I've made my opinion clear several times, most will agree about the new cars, its a split on the seats. I think seats are coming soon, especially considering how fast the new cars are. However, I'm not dissatisfied with the sport because of those two things (well not abut the seats anyway, lol).

You sound like you are really dissatisfied. I have a few suggestions for you if you are really serious about this. 1) get data. Get data to show what percentage of of races did both cars go red, the faster car was worse. Take that data, present it here, send it to NHRA.......I'm sure they will care just as much as they have about a lot of the issues we have brought to their attention. 2) Get a new hobby, you are apparently miserable. I hear if you play little league baseball they don't even keep score and everyone gets a trophy. Maybe you could star a race series like that, oh wait that would be test and tune. Maybe car shows are more up your alley, but you'd surely find something to bitch about there too.

Re: Red light survey
 

Eddie My Love, (Teen Queens, 1958)

Your baseball analogy is not working for me.

You remember when you used to go to Yankee Stadium as a wee lad, when the pitcher had to take the plate or leave the game. That was replaced by the DH rule in 1973.
Whether you agree or not, it was put into place for the betterment of the sport (or so they thought) I'm not about to place a poll on it here, but I bet I could pose the questions to skew the results any way I wanted.

Swing away,....



(BTW, The late, great Lee Sherman was the one who said that the concept of Super Gas was like giving an inferior team four outs to an inning)

Re: Red light survey
 

Thats BS right there,Ed W.Theres a few of us that
walk around when the fuel and alky cars run.We find
Pro/Stk,Comp,S/Stk and Stk much more interesting.

Granted we are in the minority but in this case the
minority is right.

Re: Red light survey
 

Doesn't matter. Ain't gonna change. May as well get over it.

Re: Red light survey
 

40% say keep it, 60% say otherwise. Doesn't that mean it should be changed?? :D

Re: Red light survey
 

Bob,29% want the change,the other two catogories either don't or don't give a flying flock.There's bigger fish to fry than this non problem.

Re: Red light survey
 

Ed, they have just about got this dead horse beat to pulp. LMAO!

Re: Red light survey
 

To Mark Yacavone,

Just wondering since you are pushing this change, will you advertise this as how you will do it at your combo race and take your chances on car count, seems you should have some say if its your race

Neal

Re: Red light survey
 

Neal, there's no way to do it unless it's changed in the computer for the tree, so Mark has no way to implement it into his program.

Jerry

Re: Red light survey
 

1, I thought I adequately explained that a change of this type would start with NHRA at Nat'l event tracks, followed by Divisional tracks, then possibly where Opens are .
This would leave Speedworld way down on the totem pole for such changes.

2, I never said I advocated such a change. I said I didn't care,one way or the other.
I also said I thought it was a good idea, seeing it was relatively easy to do, and that it would affect very few races overall, and that the first or worse scenario on the starting line would match that at the finish.

3, I enjoy discussing such issues and hearing different views . In the process ,I get to do a little promoting each time I post something.Think about that for a minute, and thanks.


(BTW, What specifically, is your interest in this discussion ?)

Re: Red light survey
 

And the way so many of you slam NHRA and it's management (and don't be dumb enough to think nobody there reads this), who in their right mind would expect them to have the software modified to make you happy. Especialy since the majority wants it left alone. Somebody here lives in a fantasy world. It just won't happen. Get over it, build a faster car, go fishing, do something else.

Re: Red light survey
 

To Marc Yacavone.

you say this needs to start at NHRA nationals first , my point is if its so easy to do then do it at your races and see how car count works for you, everyday someone wants some new personal agenda item, gets old real fast

( btw i've been involved with a super stock car for well over 35 years thanks for your concern)

Re: Red light survey
 

No good reasons here to change it....... If it was changed is it going to get new racers (NO ) It will do nothing to better the sport.....This is rediculous... Ed makes a good point on finish line driving, lots of things could go wrong down there for no reason...Why don't we just make single runs and the best package wins ,at least there would no be any stupid finish line mistakes or crashes.... Leave it alone.... I am ashamed of some of you guys.....I got lots of ideas ,but then it would not be drag racing

Re: Red light survey
 

Where is the moderator in all this?
Delete this thread!

Re: Red light survey
 

WHY ? Its just discussion AND free speech. Its not putting down anyone or cussing someone. If you dont want to read it skip to the next thread and let them complain all they want.

Re: Red light survey
 

Neil, I know what your point is and it still makes no sense.

Besides, Why would I want it changed at Speedworld? I race there with a 12.0 car in Sportsman. I 'm convinced I think. I want what's good for ME.
That's the new Wisconsin way, isn't it?

Re: Red light survey
 

A lively debate scares some people! Jim:eek:



.

Re: Red light survey
 

Doesn't matter for me I'm usaully -00? red and other guy is .160-.220 green and .20 above flat out.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Red light survey
 

Me too Mike. Lol

Re: Red light survey
 

I wasn't referring to percentages like you were Mr. Ed, I was counting vote totals per each category....but since you have to go by percentages, I find it intriguing that the percentage of those who think like you has shrunk, and those who think like me (and the other topic preferer's), has grown. I also think it amusing that the deficit of voters between my selection and yours (in actual votes) is shrinking...makes me wonder how it might be if there was no third choice...just like some of the past elections where a third candidate negated a chance for the loser of the election to actually win instead....I'll stick with my liberal/progressive math (thank you very much), because at least when I spell comprehension, I make certain to add both letter e's to it...lol!!!

Re: Red light survey
 

Percentage,not amount of stand alone votes is the point of a pole.But what the hell you'll
still think more people want the change.
It's now and has been at 28-29% for change and 71-72% for status quo.That's how it's been almost the whole time of the poll.Period.

Re: Red light survey
 

Ed, tell me the difference in starting line procedure for handicap races in Class racing and in Bracket racing. Anything????
1,
2,
3,
4.

There IS no difference.

What is valid in Bracket racing is just as valid in Class racing, as far as starting line /red light protocol.

And quit trying to muddy the waters by saing things like this change is "welfare." How is it welfare; all it does is give EVERYBODY the same chance to red light.

It takes away the welfare that exists NOW, for the 2nd car to leave.

Tell me what's wrong with that?

If you can't understand that, they're right.... you can't fix stupid.

Re: Red light survey
 

No, it means that 60 percent of the voters on this board have no interest in making things as fair as possible. It's perfectly alright with them that half the cars racing are screwed by this anomaly.

If they changed it so the first car to break out was eliminated, would they think that was okay, too?

Same deal....

Used to be that way... but they fixed it. Now, let's fix this.

Tell me one good reason not to.

Re: Red light survey
 

[QUOTE=bill dedman;243773]No, it means that 60 percent of the voters on this board have no interest in making things as fair as possible. It's perfectly alright with them that half the cars racing are screwed by this anomaly.

There you go Bill,you said it yourself.The class racers here are a bunch of self serving low life ba$tards.That's a good reason not to get involved in this conversation,because hey,it doesn't affect you anyway right?