Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Jeff and David: Regarding the 3-bbl carb and intake, Chrysler completed the design modifications to the carb and 'short track' manifold and submitted them to NASCAR one week before the Firecracker 400 at Daytona in 1964. The combination was accepted by them and ran at that race. The manifold was the '043' magnesium version with the rear half of the plenum modified to accept the wide 3-bbl throttle blade. Les Norton runs this manifold on his car as it has been accepted by NHRA even though the carb has not been accepted! The interesting part of the story is that the Chrysler engineers spent a lot of time and money trying to get the 3-bbl to work, and even had to move the secondary boosters to correct the fuel distribution. Eventually they said it was worth 2% HP improvement, the same as they found in early testing with Hilborn fuel injection. The carb is a Holley model 3085A P/N 2536406 and used base plate gasket 2536411. One of these would be a rare find as it is not the same as the generic 3-bbl Holleys that were later sold over the counter. Anyway, it's not legal in stock, just an interesting story. By the way, I came about this information when a good friend let me look over an extensive collection of weekly engineering meeting minutes from late '63 to mid '64 by the group developing the A 864 engine program which included both the NASCAR engine and the Drag Race cross ram engine. Facinating reading. These guys were so far ahead of everyone else it was scary. Hollow stem valves, titanium retainers, a slew of light weight proposals including gun drilled cams, titanium wrist pins, Hilborns without conventional throttle blades. What we got was aluminum heads, oil and water pumps, mag intakes and more.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Thank you Steve for the info on the "Bath Tub" intake and 3 barrel carb combo. It would have taken me days and maybe weeks to dig out the paper work and info on this combo as I have it packed away. I knew I wasnt to crazy...LOL .It was just a long time ago when we researched it for IHRA's AA/S class. In the end IHRA went with a 7 lb class break and reduced the HP rating on the Hemi X ram 2x4 system which would also allow the Ford T-Bolts and L-88 Corvettes with thier old HP ratings to compete together heads up. Dan Davorak had build one (a 64 X-ram Hemi model) but I dont know if he had the chance to run it before his surgery.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Item number: 250447430693 ebay Nascar carb, no intakes at this time but have seen a few in the last couple years even the wedge nascar intake, there were two just last month.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Thanks for the interesting facts Steve.

The intake I have here at the shop is the exact same one you're talking about. Which intake did they have before they had the 3 bbl approved? Was it the same one without the 3 bbl modification?

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Is this one of the Hemi Nascar single carb intakes being talked about, or a similar version with that has the carb "sunk" in the top half?

http://wwnboa.com/jpgs/wwnboamckinney2.jpg


....and I also found this!

http://www.thehemi.com/gallery.php?id=0003

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Dave I run a steel shaker with factory, "lead" trim ring and scoop inserts. I think this hood looks much cooler than the AAR hood. The air cleaner top is OEM steel and the intake is a real piece with the correct casting number the carbs are corect for a '71 six pac. Drop by at Norwalk and check it out for yourself.

A/SA now has 15 cars that will be four rounds of fun for two people.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

I think it would be great to run A/SA with so many cars but I don't want to get hit with HP. And how many cars lose class on purpose just to protect their combo? What kind of racing is that? At least in AA you can run balls out. At least for now anyway.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

I was wondering about the AAR hood I saw on the Larry Hill car at one time, until now I didn't know it was considered a replacement for the shaker on 4 bbl. combos. An old friend of my dad's runs a 71 340 Barracuda stock with a shaker, anyone know if the AAR hood works better?

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

hey yall i guess yall dont think the LS1 are a chev 427 has a chance .......

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Hey Evan, I think you are adjusting quite well to that Florida climate, but your comparison of the 6pak in the B-body & A-body is a typo! The B & E bodies are very similar and you are right about the average, and it's only 12 hp, maybe roughly 120 lbs, solid tenth!!!

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Jeff,

If I remember correctly the "bath tub" manifold was designed with a narrow high RPM range. I know we used to run a NASCAR max wedge manifold on our non-race track max and it didn't have any low end at all but started to sing around 5500.....we just told everybody that it was a 383 with a cam!

Here's a question......why can '63 Max Wedge cars run aluminum front ends but the '64 cars can't?

Jim R

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Jim its listed on the 64 spec sheet, 425hp A * stock 7.52 Alum 64

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Jeff,

When I was a kid the Chryler/Plymouth dealer near us had a beautiful (metallic?) blue AAR 340 Six Pack 'Cuda. And parked next to it was a horrible tan/mustard (?) Superbird with brown bench seat interior and automatic on the column. The Superbird sat on the lot for over a year. I can't imagine how anyone ever let that car get assembled without the customer paying cash in advance.

Someone finally bought it 'cause it used to be parked in a company lot everyday. Of course that was back when parking spots and garages were designed for American cars, not Hondas. :-)

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

David; The '043' intakes for the 4-BBL carb had a notch cut in the divider wall that ran between the centerlines of the primary and secondary throttle shafts and was about .68" deep. I asked Gendora if the M-1 intake could be cut to match the '043' and unfortunately the answer was no. Steve

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

If it is considered a replacement that is a bunch of BS. They only came on the 340+6.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Thanks Bob, now all I have to do is save up $ 30,000.00 and I might be able to buy the front end.

Jim

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Yes Frank, I meant E body, which is Cuda/Challenger.

Larry, did you ever play ABA Basketball?

Evan

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Myron, that is the birdbath, bathtub, etc. We had a SS/DA motor we ran in a mud truck with AFB'sX2 on a rat roaster. The ride was so violent the carbs didn't work well. A friend who used to own Arrow Racing Engines in Detroit sent me one of those and we used a race 850 on it. It was about 50% better, and then the Dominator we put on it was even better. Picture this; a 79 Dodge W150/ SS/DA motor with the Birdbath, 727 T/F, Turbo Action Converter, 2 to 1 reduction in the transfer case, 5.38's on each end, and 4 32" tractor tires on the corners in a 3/8 mile mud oval 4 times around. Now that's a ride!!!

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Larry,

Just curious, what's the problem with the L-88 carburetor?

Couris

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Back in the 70's I had several friends order L-88 carbs. (850 cfm) over the GM parts counter. Never a problem.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

I have tried to seal an AAR hood to the air cleaner. It does not work like the T/A challenger hood. There is a vacuum and it hurts performance. It was tried back to back on an AAR stocker.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

FYI....IHRA allows the good quality fiberglass replacement fenders,front bumper, and hoods with scoop to replace the high dollar alum. . Not the flimsy "bracket" type of front end stuff. You can contact IHRA or Jack McCormick to get the companys name that makes it.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Didnt Dodge make about 100 of those for stock elim. years ago? Can we say "Paper Car"........

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

[b] is the intake I have and the carb looks like the one in the bathtub picture

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

And besides that they are not a good looking hood.

The T/A scoop is a beautiful piece for sure.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Ever compare the AAR to the shaker?

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Larry,

I think I read your post incorrectly concerning the L-88 Carburetor.

Couris

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Thanks, that's some good info for those of us that can't afford aluminum. About 25 years ago there was a guy in the Mid-west that made aluminum fenders and hoods but I never got around to talking to him.

Jim

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

The precident was set a long time ago for the T/A hood on the hemi challenger....see page 742 on the TVD thread, it shows a hemi challenger racing in the days of super tricks with a T/A hood.

If Fords can run alum. heads on cars that never had alum then why can't I run alum Indy heads on my Max Wedge? If I change it over to SS can I run the indy's and their new inline rat roaster style intake on the Max, they look very much like SS/AH manifolds?

Jim R

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

That would be nice Jim. If it raised the HP factor on the Max they could run in SS/CA which would be a great class for these cars and allow them to run a head design that wasn't 48 years old, Paul.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Exactly!

Revive the old cars and let them run!

Jim

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Even if they won't allow the Indy's why can't we run the Edelbrock head? Should would make it alot cheaper than trying to find originals or repops that weren't wortha s**t! To try to run with the new injected cars is insane. If you ask NHRA to take OFF some horsepower all they do is say no thanks. You just can't get a flat hooded 63 dodge to run like the scoop hooded cars. NHRA just won't listen or doen't care.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

The high comp. 64's will get to "C", not sure about the 63's. Even then, you can't find a good set of heads, and finding the aluminum front end is impossible. NHRA should let them run the Edelbrock max wedge head as was suggested, and let them use the fiberglass front end (IHRA already does, I have a copy of an e-mail somewhere, and Harley Day's beautiful 64 Plymouth has a glass front end). There used to be a ton of 426 max wedge cars in super stock, where are they now? - Mike Cissell had one running about 4 years ago.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

I sent an email to the IHRA about the fiberglass and the heads. The reply was basically: if you want to run the heads you have to ask the IHRA to approve them; yes, you can run the fiberglass but and I quote "you need to contact Jack McCormack who makes the fiberglass" he knows who makes it.

I live in FL and no one has seen Mike around for a while, if anyone knows how to contact him, let me know.

Jim

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

David, a few years ago I bought some A990 parts from Ralph Ronzello and he said hea had a 64 plymouth with Nascar set-up. You might check with him.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Jim....when I was doing all of the stock and S/S stuff the problem with the Edelbrock heads was they only came with large valve seats and the CC's were wrong in the combustion chamber. I havent kept up to see if they are avaliable with the correct valve sizes and CC's lately. If they avaliable with the correct valve size and CC's Im sure you could get them OK'ed by Mike Baker and Hank Blankenship due to the lack of avaliable factory Iron parts. You just have to go thru the "Drill". I sent you a PM last night about the fiberglass front end parts. .

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Terry, The problem is Mopar sells a replacement head, nhra has it listed but it is junk, alot of machine work is needed to even use the head. On the other hand if Edelbrock has made changes you would have to send a head to Mike. We did it with a piston for a crate motor racer a couple of years ago. nhra could care less, they do not even answer emails anymore, I have emailed 3 times about a pan listed on the Stock pan list that Moroso dose not even list any more and the other pan is listed short 2 qts. They just dont care.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Bob....as I hear the replacement head (M) is almost impossable to find with the correct valve seats. I went thru several for a guy in Penn. several years ago before we found some with the correct valve size. Most you find now are 2.14 intake and 1.81 exhaust. The exhaust can be cut to size but the intakes are junk. Your correct in that they need a lot of work to be usable so why fool with them at all? Even the combustion chamber has to be....shall we say "Massaged" to clear the dome on a Max Wedge piston. With all of the Chevys and Ford alum heads being used one would think Edelbrock or someone would make a "LEGAL" replacement for the 440/383 and the Max wedge. Mike Baker is very good about accepting stuff like this if it shown to be like original. NHRA needs to get off thier ***** and wake up to help the Mopar guys out.

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Terry, when has the NHRA ever given a darn about Mopar guys, they have always left me with the impression that they wished we would just go away.

Jim

Re: AA/SA @ Norwalk OH
 

Just like I thought, John was the winner in AA/SA at Norwalk