Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Well you get it...abeit dont "agree" ... the Package cars will be soon "rated" where they will....maybe in the long run its their own class, dosent matter.

What does matter is the factory interest, and the interest from the public at large, Ford and Mopar are and will be building that. THATS where the bang is. they arent going to sink in a ton of money only to not exploit the press, with that comes interest.

Its not the ACTUAL package cars themselves that are so good for stock, its what they represent, they will land where they land AA only or later SS....simple the interem may be a bit rough for others like the next year bit

You said what the real point is yourself
"Granted, it undoubtedly will do the sport "good medicine" to get new blood, more cars, etc to show up. Even to get some current pro's, ex-pro's, ex-champs back into the action will be a definite PLUS.:

The new iron is good for everyone EXCEPT the people with the old iron.

Im 38 and if you told me I would get to race or even have the potential opportunity to race "Big Daddy" in my lifetime 2 years ago Ida said you had a screw loose, on to Couglin, same thing, on to some of the others...yeah right...but thats exactly what happened and is happening.

The rules will put the cars where they should be. The cars themselves are not the point, the interest they generate from BOTH the Public and the Corporate side is....and they are doing that job well. That was the whole point from Ma Mopar and Fords perspective.....BUT its brought more attention to "Stock Eliminator" than anything else in the last say 5 years.

Can you say the "Joe Public" Dodge or Ford buyer even looked to NHRA Stock Eliminiator, until these cars ?

In recent years say the last 10, what other single event, or happening has raised awarness of Stock Eliminator to the public at large as much as these pacakge cars ? Google, Drag Pak , Super Cobra Jet, etc and see where the articles are....everywhere......not just National Dragster.....everywhere from Car and Driver to well....look at there some of the articles are

If nothing else look at the package cars is they have a "Job to do" when thats done HP will be up...

Were actually looking at upping the HP factor intentionally on the Challenger (we have a plan on that) Other Challenger owners might not like that but it has potential to be very effective for us....that should make everyone else happy too :)

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

[QUOTE=drooze;161826]Well you get it...abeit dont "agree" ... the Package cars will be soon "rated" where they will....maybe in the long run its their own class, dosent matter.

Don't hold your breath waiting.



What does matter is the factory interest, and the interest from the public at large, Ford and Mopar are and will be building that. THATS where the bang is. they arent going to sink in a ton of money only to not exploit the press, with that comes interest.

And they could build more interest and get more goodwill by giving each returning Veteran a new Mustang or Challenger!



Its not the ACTUAL package cars themselves that are so good for stock, its what they represent, they will land where they land AA only or later SS....simple the interem may be a bit rough for others like the next year bit

They represent Stock Eliminator mongrels because they're not STOCK!



You said what the real point is yourself
"Granted, it undoubtedly will do the sport "good medicine" to get new blood, more cars, etc to show up. Even to get some current pro's, ex-pro's, ex-champs back into the action will be a definite PLUS.:

Sure, in Super Stock where they belong!



The new iron is good for everyone EXCEPT the people with the old iron.

I don't see how!




Im 38 and if you told me I would get to race or even have the potential opportunity to race "Big Daddy" in my lifetime 2 years ago Ida said you had a screw loose, on to Couglin, same thing, on to some of the others...yeah right...but thats exactly what happened and is happening.

I feel the same way but I might just as well race against Bigs TF car or Jeggies PSer.




Can you say the "Joe Public" Dodge or Ford buyer even looked to NHRA Stock Eliminiator, until these cars ?

You've apparently never been to a National Event and been around the staging lanes when the pairings for 1st round are being set up!



In recent years say the last 10, what other single event, or happening has raised awarness of Stock Eliminator to the public at large as much as these pacakge cars ? Google, Drag Pak , Super Cobra Jet, etc and see where the articles are....everywhere......not just National Dragster.....everywhere from Car and Driver to well....look at there some of the articles are

Oh maybe the headsup final at Pomona featuring 2 real cars and 2 class act guys.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

No, drooze, the new factory cars will not soon be correctly factored. In case you have not figured it out, the reason the indexes were lowered, the AHFS was altered, and the AHFS was removed from the control of people who know Stock and Super Stock, is to protect the new soft factors. Even if all of the above had NOT been done, the new cars wouldn't be correctly factored for 4-5 years at best.

The new factory cars have been here for a year already. How much "awesome, incredible, extra exposure" have they brought to Stock and Super Stock? Damned little, if any. And they won't bring any more exposure this year, either. Because NHRA doesn't care about exposure for Stock and Super Stock.

The only thing that can bring Stock and Super Stock back to their former glory is to have the right people involved in managing and promoting the classes. That will not happen so long as the current people control NHRA, and so long as NHRA exerts the majority of control over Stock and Super Stock.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

This must have been the mentality approx. 40 yrs. ago when NHRA ruled that "only 1960 and newer cars" can run stock. My '57 Chevy was immediatly worthless as a stocker. Fortunately, stockers weren't that radical back then and could still be turned back into street cars.

I feel sorry for the guys with $50,000+ stockers that will find themselves uncompetetive now after years and $ flogging their combination.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

The Package cars should have been direct to Super Stock ala the Hemi cars.

You want to talk about 'factories promoting to the masses'? Really? I'd be embarrassed to advertise that my big $$$ supercharged purpose-built race-only car put out 435HP. If it's a street-legal car they're trying to sell, they'd advertise that it makes 700HP!

The factories could just as easily promote factory-backed teams of the 2009, 2010 street-legal, readily available cars built up as Stock eliminator cars and generate more interest among the general public because the technology upgrades etc that come with it would actually have some bearing on cars that the general public could buy. Look at what Mopar Performance did with their truck program in the late '90s.

Short version: yes, factory support and new cars are important -- standard production cars, not package cars. I'm a Mopar guy and I'm more interested in what a production Challenger would do in Stock than a package car Challenger. I already have a Crate Motor car, and it's more of a Stocker than a package car (not to mention some other "traditional" Stockers, sadly).

$.02,

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

oh and one more thing Drooze, the car I drive is 9 years older than I am. Yes its dad's but if i had my choice right now, I'd have a 66 Chevy II. There are plenty of late model stockers, and i have no problem with EFI cars, but these package cars are BS.

With the economy the way it is, neither dad or I can spend the money to build a new car. Its just not in the cards right now. So we are probably going to build a small block. Oh well, whatever we have to do to keep racing. Dad's car has been a big block stocker/superstocker since 1970, and NHRA and the factories made it obsolete with a stroke of a pen. I hate what NHRA and those in charge have done to stock eliminator, i have no respect for those responsible for the decision. I also have no respect for anyone who takes any pride in beating a REAL stocker with one of these cars.

I AM one of the younger guys (32), and if this is the future of Stock and Superstock, I may just go do something else.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Amen Chad,
I too am a younger guy (27) my superstocker was built when I was three and the stocker I'm building was 12 years old before I was born. Also my weekend street car was 19 years old before I was born. In my opinion nothing is better then Old Iron. Especially the 63-65 B bodies.
I did try to buy Bret Veldes 04 Cobra because it was a steal and a beautiful car but I was a couple hours late to get it. However that car you could buy at your local Ford dealer and drive it home. I like the new Package cars but, also think they should have been superstockers. Save the showroom available cars for stock.
My .02 if it's worth that.

Rick

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

I somewhat disagree with the notion that "younger guys" have no interest.
I believe some underestimate the interest they have in the 60's and 70's cars. They actually are very knowledgable about these cars and get very excited when they see them.

Also, I believe that is exactly what they are trying to create with the new production versions of the Challenger, Camaro and Mustang...."The excitement". However, try as you might, you will never capture the excitment the production cars from the 60's and 70's have because it is part of our history and history of drag racing. That's why many fans young and old go to see drag racing. It's to see these incredible cars from the 60's & 70's race.


There are those that seek change and that has it's place, but you know how the saying goes: "Be carefull what you ask for".

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Ok points taken...

I see here no end to the compalints that things are "doomed" they way they are and this that and the other bad about Stock Eliminator.

I see how this could be a "shot in the arm" I do see how you say it could hurt also.

I am a big fan of the Lightweights and AFX cars,,,,,guys had to say the same thing when they were introduced....what happened ? It evolved, it evolved in 2 directions, the breaking out of the AFX into what became the funny car , hence the quote about "those funny cars" who was it that said that again ? :)

If youre saying it dosent need saved, Ill buy that you know your stuff, many others here seem to knell its gloom and doom and how noone cares.

If Dodge produces the 1320 for the public at large how will you feel then ? The SCJ's damm near can be bought asis at a dealer (the SC cousin) and the Chal SRT8..but I understand

People compain about the cost of these cars....but the truth is the SCJ "ready to race" is 72, not 100k....the Challenger is 37k and some change, it CAN be finished for another 10 if you do the work...in my math that does NOT equal 100k...I know 2 DP owners who are doing just that, own cage etc....so just because someone decides to spend as much as they do , dosent make these 100k cars....We WALKED into a dealer down the road and ordered it....simple...that simple...A Challenger SRT8 is 50....so the same price almost...how much is a new GT500 ? I dont even know. And then these , some of these are the same people who may very well have an additional 30 in their car that had an original list of say 10k (at the TOP) soooo...inflation sucks...no doubt have you looked at the prices of anything...uggghhh....

Others said they "wouldnt bet" the cars will be rated be high soon, and how the index adjustments are done in favor of these cars....the rules I cant comment on I dont have enough knowledge....What I DO know is we plan to run the car to the limit factors be dammed....maybe that will make them happy. I cant depend on some "super secret Challneger DP society" to all get together and under a blood oath commit to run the cars under X....so....simple I have to eliminate that from my strategy and had to come up with an alternate strategy that wasnt dependent on that, part of that involves running the car to its full potential. Itll probably piss DP owners off, and for that Im sorry, most are damm nice guys, but I have to worry about our competitive stance , not theirs.

I just look at what the first round of "Factory Specials" "Lightweights" and "AFX" cars did for Drag Racing, I sure dont think they had a negative influence on the sport, quite to the contrary....if its history repeating itself lets hope the outcome is as good.

I dont think anyone who loves drag racing can say it would have been better if the "AFX, Lightweights and Factory Specials" would have never existed.....that seems odd they would fight something that was so influential in the beginning.....

But your points are taken and I can see their perspective.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

You are unusual for your age, but Im assuming you grew up around cars like I did....that why you can appeciate the old iron...and your right, there was NOTHING like it...till now....it took 40 years to overcome the red tape in the EPA, Insurance companies, etc, to be able to build 13 second daily drivers for the masses, and thats exactly what a RT/SRT8 Challenger, and Some of the Mustangs are.

How many of your buddies at school even KNEW what a B body was ....lol. a few Im sure....but hell even the Cheerleaders knew what a mustang was :)

Theyll all be AA only soon enough....and in the case of some of the lower class packages they migrate up the chain to where they are competitive with other cars that have lived there for a while.