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Old 12-12-2017, 01:48 PM   #11
Maverick
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Yes, I have a line loc, and a brake pressure gauge, and I roll in to the light. The car has to roll so I don't run a lot of pressure, due to the fact I want the car to roll . And when you lite the second bulb, and push in the clutch, the car still rolls a little after. Went red once this year due to the top bulb going out, why I don't know. I did not roll in deep, but the top bulb is out and I am red. The prestage lite intention is to warn you, that you are close to the stage beam. That was the original thought. But now you have people shallow staging, and if the roll back out of the stage lite, the timing system will keep the bulb lit so they don't red. So now you can roll back out of the stage lite, and not go red, due to not staging properly, but if you let the prestage go out, you go red. So know you have this fear of letting the top bulb go out, so you shallow stage, which some cars,you will have a higher reaction time. This is about the .370 lite versus the .4 lite. All I want is make it the same as the pros. They can let the top bulb go out, and they don't go red. It is part of there starting line strategy, if they want. It kinda of dumb, that you can roll back out of the stage lite, and the NHRA fixes it so you won't go red. But if you let the prestage go out, you go red. I know that is the way the rules are, but it is not right.
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:41 PM   #12
SST159
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Tom, I agree with your earlier comments 100%. My concern has always been, why is it when they make changes similar to this that no one is formally notified.
Maybe its me not paying attention however over the many years I have been pro tree .90 racing, I usually hear about these changes through the "grape vine". When I learned about this particular change (through the grape vine) I was in the middle of an event pulling my hair out trying to figure out is it me or the car. only to find out it was neither one. it was the tree change. Surprise Surprise!
When an association whether it be NHRA or whom ever advertises a .500 or .400 tree then it should be just that. If they change it for what ever reason then all members should be notified. (not through the vine)
Just saying.
PS, What tree does MASGA and MASSA use?
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Drew,

We use a .400 & .500 Tree in MASGA & MASSA. Its always been one of those "touchy" subjects with the series and one I dread every time someone brings it up. I did a poll in the off season and let the members vote on what tree they wanted. Only member who were signed up for points in 2016 & 2017 were allowed to vote. Super Comp was a landslide 27-5 in favor of the .370 tree that we currently use but, Super Gas & Super Street were a practical split, so I went to E-Town D1 race and talked with some of the racers who voted for the .370 / .470 tree just to ask their thoughts. It was mixed just like this conversation is and the Facebook petition is. A lot of the racers said they were "Not Happy" that the tree is at .370 but, since NHRA is the only game in town besides the series (Now that IHRA is defunct and that was a .400 / .500 tree) and it's a wally to win they suck it up and roll the dice and attend because as stated before it's very hard to go bracket racing with one of these cars in the format they are in. When I asked the members who voted for the .400 / .500 tree what would happen if we went to a .370 / .470 tree in the series a lot of people told me that they would be looking to possibly go bracket racing or IHRA Racing (This is before they dropped the bombshell about no more sportsman racers). I had to make the choice to do what is going to keep cars coming to the .90 events so we stayed with a .400 / .500 tree. I can tell you I have racers who have told me they would come to more D1 races if it was a .400 / .500 tree, Unfortunately, I think the people who sold / quit .90 racing some 10 years ago won't run out and buy a new car if the tree changes. I know from conversations at my events people like Dave Harvey Jr. & Sr., Jimmy Young, Mike Lauria and a few others said they would come play and I think it's not about getting the old people back but, maybe introducing it to bracket racers who always wanted to try it out but, knew they wouldn't be competitive.

I think a lot of racers were mad because as Drew said it was changed in mid-season. Like I said, I remember going to Maple Grove for the LODRS and we couldn't hit the tree with a cannon that weekend and we thought "The rollout is screwed up or the beams are raised" so we went to Atco for the LODRS and was in the same boat so we changed Shocks, Four-Links, Bought new tires from Hoosier, Changed Air Pressure, etc over two weekends of racing and beat our head against the wall. We go to a MASGA Race the following weekend and Lucky comes over and says "What Tree do you guys want? We were like what are you talking about Lucky and he told us...Oh yeah they changed the tree to a .370 tree." I think if they just came out on January 1st, 20-- and said Press Release "Beginning in the 20-- racing season due to us changing over to the LED Bulbs we are changing to a Led Compensated .370 / .470 Pro Tree." This way people knew what the heck was going on. I mean I try to keep everyone informed as to whats going on with the .90 Series.
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Rob,
We too use the .500 tree for our NESSA program. No one ever complained or even brought it up that I can recall so I just let it be. Plus I think if we changed it to .470, we may loose a few cars that have been very successful foot braking on the pro tree. If it ain't broke I don't fix it. Your second paragraph explains exactly what I was getting at. Surprises are not acceptable when we all pay our membership and thousands of hard earned dollars to play. No matter when a change is made that would affect a racers performance, everyone should be notified before it is put in place. Imagine how many racers went home scratching their head. That's an expensive situation for all of us. I never complain much however that one really got me. Hell from what I understand the reason for the change was the Pro's not the sportsman. That being said why not just change the tree for the pros and leave the sportsman as it was. To me personally it makes little difference because I know my car really well (when it behaves) and have been fortunate enough to adjust back and fourth ever since they changed it so its easy for me. Others maybe not so much. As Tom said, each of us has to work hard at our race program to be even close to a winner and that is the way it should be as long as the organization plays in a level manner. Interesting to hear many different opinions which is why I like this forum.
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Goldman View Post
Boy ,you guys just love to stir the pot don't you.
Anybody that thinks this will help car counts is fooling themselves , this about helping themselves !
You want a .400- .500 tree ?...Well then lets go back to the incandescent lights as well . .....Then lets see who is still on the tree !
I've held this in for a long time ,many racers have just gotten lazy and no longer work at the tree or their car .. ....Instead ,they want to change the tree to get a better light .
Racers need to realize Racing , as in life is not always equal . ....what do you do in life ? you work harder ,try harder . ....Racing should be the same way.
Instead of building a car for the class ,you want NHRA to change the rules to suit your car.
There are times I have a hard time on the .370LED tree , Gee ,what should I do ? I know ,I'll demand they change something till I have a .00 light ! NOT !
I go back and change the shock settings ,tire pressure ,4-link ,add ballast ,change launch rpm .
AND if that doesn't do it ,well I guess I'll put the snorkel on and dive it in !
This is NHRA Championship racing ,you have to earn that Wally , It ain't no "participation trophy" !
I agree with you 100%.
If the clubs like MASGA etc. want to use a 400 tree to get a few more entries, that is fine. If you want to run with the big dogs at the NHRA divisionals and nationals, make the car work for the class your racing.
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:49 PM   #16
flash
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Am I wrong or is this change no where in the NHRA rulebook ? I have only heard of it by word of mouth !
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Old 12-13-2017, 09:26 PM   #17
Tom Goldman
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

It's only been at .370 for Fourteen years .....It didn't just happen.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:49 AM   #18
BKSG1198
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Tom,

Obviously since 14 years has passed since the .370 tree came into existence and people are still questioning "we're on a .370 tree??" it wasn't communicated very well. Here is what is in the 2018 rulebook under Super Gas:

Super Gas cars race on a 9.90 standard (6.30 for eighth-mile
tracks) using a heads-up, .4-second Pro Tree. Reserved for
full-body cars with full fenders, hood, grille, top, windshield,
and functional doors.

So someone who is brand new to Super Gas and doesn't read all the message boards or go on Facebook very often but, use the NHRA Rulebook as the bible would have no clue what tree your running on. It's just a form of communication that is all.

It's easy to say:
Super Gas cars race on a 9.90 standard (6.30 for eighth-mile
tracks) using a heads-up, .4-second Pro Tree (.030 LED Compensation)
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:48 AM   #19
flash
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

Oh I knew about it.but the point is if you where doing something illegal and got caught,they would say it's against the rules-read the rulebook.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:22 PM   #20
NHRA1926
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Default Re: .370 back to .400 Pro Tree

If the the rule book states .400/.500 then that's what it should be. Us in Super Street with fully suspended cars have a hard time hitting the .470 tree. The really fast cars can always just add numbers to the delay box to slow their car's reaction to hit the .400/.500 tree. We suspended cars don't have the luxury to be able to speed up the cars reaction time like the supergas/supercomp cars. Just because the pros have a hard time with the tree, doesn't mean us sportsman cars should have to have the opposite problem. Especially at divisional races where the pros don't even run!
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