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Old 12-02-2017, 07:44 PM   #21
Mark Yacavone
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Wink Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

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Originally Posted by Rusty Gillis View Post
I believe Stock and Super Stock is bracket racing with rules. You can change your dial in every round. I don't think you should be able to change your dial in. When I raced Super Stock back in the early 70's you ran off of National Records and most National events you had to win class and pass tech to race on Sunday.
Rusty, Things are definitely different from when we first started, but I would say it depends on what class you run,as to whether it's bracket racing or not .
I 'd say maybe you need to bring one of your Fords out here to Vegas in A/SA.
If you manage to go a few rounds, you'll find out real quick that it ain't bracket racing anymore. ;-)
Hope to see you, and good luck!
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:24 PM   #22
Chris Barnes
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

I got my start in drag racing at the local bracket races, a million years ago (but it feels like yesterday). Now I don't bracket race my stocker nearly as much as I would like to because #2, the stocker motor is worth too much money to risk blowing up at a local bracket race. Also I can't spare the time and money for bracket racing. I am slowly getting a bracket car together that will "feel" the same as my stocker that I can drive to the track. I believe that bracket racing is the best practice for Stock Eliminator.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:50 AM   #23
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

"..I can't spare the time and money for bracket racing. I am slowly getting a bracket car together that will "feel" the same as my stocker..."


No dog in the hunt.

But, I'm just curious how you can build a bracket car to race, if you "can't spare the time & money for bracket racing." ?

Also wondering about the idea that Stocker engines cost too much to run bracket races. I've read on this forum that the Stock purse is very low, at most races. But there are lots of bracket races around the country that pay $10,000 on up to $50k to win. And lots of 'em have 2 or 3 separate races on a weekend, with $10k or more to win, each day.

I understand that some guys prefer to spend big money to run a second under their index, at div & national events. But, the reason can't possibly be for the purse & contingency money. So, I assume it's mostly to be able do what most average guys cannot afford to do. Then for a few others, I assume it's because they have the know-how & mechanical skills to get a car under the index, which most bracket racers do not have.

This is not a put down, in any way. I love to keep up with the Stocker racing, tho I've never had the budget to do it, on a national level. This is merely an observation, from what I've seen, and from what I've read on this forum.

It's just my personal opinion that NHRA let the Stock rules get WAY out of hand. To me, just the cam/valve spring rule alone changed the game, quite a bit, and increased the cost of a competitive engine, in some classes, by many thousands of dollars. And, I assume that the inclusion of the light trans, like the TH200, also increased the price of buying and maintaining a super competitive trans, by quite a few bucks.

I'd be interested in hearing from some of you older guys, who have raced Stockers since back in the '70's, about how the major rules changes, such as the cam/valve spring rule & light trans rule, affected your racing costs. Thanks !
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:54 AM   #24
Todd Hoven
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

The high dollar bracket races are multi entry fast paced races. Some engines its hard to put a high volume of runs in a short time without the chance of damaging them due to heat and other factors.
The guys that have the more expensive class engines are not doing it for the money. Running your high dollar 396 or 426 Hemi that is designed as a max effort deal doesn't have a long shelf life. Plus an engine like that needs the valve covers off and to be maintained and looked over more often.
There is no advantage of running that type of engine against a top flight bracket engine running on alcohol that can make 20 runs without any maintenance. Many purpose built bracket race engines can go 400+ runs without batting an eye. A max effort deal can't be run like that.
Cost has just gone up everywhere. Building a competitive car that can with the big money races can be very costly. Its just not 1980 anymore




Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool View Post
"..I can't spare the time and money for bracket racing. I am slowly getting a bracket car together that will "feel" the same as my stocker..."


No dog in the hunt.

But, I'm just curious how you can build a bracket car to race, if you "can't spare the time & money for bracket racing." ?

Also wondering about the idea that Stocker engines cost too much to run bracket races. I've read on this forum that the Stock purse is very low, at most races. But there are lots of bracket races around the country that pay $10,000 on up to $50k to win. And lots of 'em have 2 or 3 separate races on a weekend, with $10k or more to win, each day.

I understand that some guys prefer to spend big money to run a second under their index, at div & national events. But, the reason can't possibly be for the purse & contingency money. So, I assume it's mostly to be able do what most average guys cannot afford to do. Then for a few others, I assume it's because they have the know-how & mechanical skills to get a car under the index, which most bracket racers do not have.

This is not a put down, in any way. I love to keep up with the Stocker racing, tho I've never had the budget to do it, on a national level. This is merely an observation, from what I've seen, and from what I've read on this forum.

It's just my personal opinion that NHRA let the Stock rules get WAY out of hand. To me, just the cam/valve spring rule alone changed the game, quite a bit, and increased the cost of a competitive engine, in some classes, by many thousands of dollars. And, I assume that the inclusion of the light trans, like the TH200, also increased the price of buying and maintaining a super competitive trans, by quite a few bucks.

I'd be interested in hearing from some of you older guys, who have raced Stockers since back in the '70's, about how the major rules changes, such as the cam/valve spring rule & light trans rule, affected your racing costs. Thanks !
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:14 AM   #25
Michael Beard
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

Yeah, who would do that?

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Old 12-03-2017, 10:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

I don't know what percentage of Stockers also run bracket, with the same car.

But, being a Pontiac freak, I do remember that Brad Burton won a well known bracket race, which I believe was called the Spring Fling. The car in the pics LOOKED like the same car he races in Stock Elim. Don't know if he made any engine or tuning changes for that race or not.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:38 AM   #27
Todd Hoven
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

Iíve driven that car. Itís a great car, very storied, and a winning record to say the least. A 500+ HP Pontiac that runs less than 6500 RPM will last along time, but compared to a high RPM 396,426 and so on itís a tow truck engine. I own and race a Pontiac. They are tow truck engines. Other than Scott Burtonís deal. Most make less then 530 Hp and donít turn any RPM. You can put 3 to 400 runs on those engines without missing a beat.

Michael, you are a very accomplished racer. One of the best out there. But your cars are bracket cars that fit a class or 2. Nothing max effort or
Remotely fast against NHRA cars. A low maintenance race car.



QUOTE=oldskool;550931]I don't know what percentage of Stockers also run bracket, with the same car.

But, being a Pontiac freak, I do remember that Brad Burton won a well known bracket race, which I believe was called the Spring Fling. The car in the pics LOOKED like the same car he races in Stock Elim. Don't know if he made any engine or tuning changes for that race or not. [/QUOTE]
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

I agree with Todd, I personally don't have a problem doing some bracket racing with my car. Although it's a little bit in the pricey range to freshen it doesn't even come close to some of the expense of some older combos.
My view on being able to run NHRA has nothing to do about being snooty, country club or anything else we've been called, its just what I like to do. And I don't care alot about the purse or contingency, I just want the Wally and don't mind telling it lol! I know guys that have way more money in their equipment than I do that just bracket race. In this day in time it has nothing to do about how much money people have its just about what they want to do.
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Old 12-03-2017, 03:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

Honestly, how long does it take to change the engine in your car? Some might be hard but most it's a piece of cake. Also most have older engines setting around, a bigger cam, better cam carb, it'll make a good bracket engine, go have fun in between the big races.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:06 AM   #30
Michael Beard
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Default Re: Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Hoven View Post
A 500+ HP Pontiac that runs less than 6500 RPM will last along time, but compared to a high RPM 396,426 and so on itís a tow truck engine.
So don't bracket race a 396 or 426.

Quote:
But your cars are bracket cars that fit a class or 2. Nothing max effort or Remotely fast against NHRA cars. A low maintenance race car.
How exactly is the Dart a "bracket car" and any less of a Class car than any other? A car either fits a class or it doesn't. The Dart was a Class car from the day I first laid eyes on it. It's got a John Irving motor in it for G/SA. Is John Irving's fleet just a bunch of "bracket cars that fit a class or 2"?

The Volare was a Class car when I bought it, and it had continued to be a Class car right up until I broke the crank last summer, and I decided to make it a full-time bracket car. The Turismo was built as a Stocker from day one. Just because I choose to bracket race Class cars does not make them any less of a Class car. I've set national records, won class, and even been #1 Qualifier with my car(s). I'm sorry if their consistency, driveability, low maintenance, and success offends you.



Funny, no one asked me where I qualified or where I ranked against other G/SA cars on Nitro Joe's list before they handed me the Wally. I'm sorry that it's not "remotely fast" and not a part of "max effort" **** swinging contest that I would never have the desire or finances to "compete" in.

If you don't want to bracket race a class car, don't. Nobody's twisting your arm. It's some pretty offensive elitist BS to belittle others' cars that do choose to use them and enjoy them, though.
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