Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Looking at the old class guide, the 1968-70 CobraJets were rated at 340 non-ram air, 360 ram air. The sheets have the NHRA oval logo at the bottom and the date 1970 beside the logo. The hp rating is not listed on the sheet, I had to calculate based on the shipping weight from current data.


The 1967-69 Camaros 396 375 were rated at 425. Interesting that they list a 1970 Camaro with an LS6 450hp.

Any others you need info about?

Dwight,


Thanks so much for that!
I suspected that about the 428cj, from an old article (Nov.69 SS&DI)about a 428cj Cyclone saying they could run either F/SA or G/SA just by changing to a flat hood (ie no ram air). The 360hp and 340hp factors are what I had guessed.


Others I suspect were factored in stock class back then:
302/290z28 (290, yeah, sure)
427/425L72 (if the L78 was factored, why not the L72?)
427/430L88/ZL1 (same logic)
302/290boss
340/275mopar
426/425hemi


455/370w30
The reason I suspect this last one is as follows:
NHRA weight is 3720, both today & back then.
HP is 370
Even I don't need a calculator to see 3720/370=10.0x (10.05)
But most of these cars are shown running in F=9.50 and then some talk of them moving themselves up to E=9.00 to avoid a certain z28 that dominated F/S. Wouldn't all these W30 cars belong in G/S unless either they were factored to say 390hp, or the weight was wrong (w30 did have a glass hood & alum intake so that's possible?)


Well if you can look up any of those I would much appreciate it as I have no other way to get the info!

[Dwight Southerland]

Z28 302s were 315hp. I can look up the others tonight.

[TOM KASCH]

Have a lot ,but can't resize them to fit.

[Dwight Southerland]

For your inquiry, here is what I found:


302-290 Z28 315 rating
427-425hp L72 435 rating
427-420hp L88/ZL1 480 rating
302-290hp Boss 330 rating
340-275hp MoPar 310 rating
426-425hp Street Hemi 480 rating
455-370hp Olds W30 380 rating
350-255hp 1969 Chevrolet 265 rating
400-370 1969 Pontiac RAIV 380 rating


Your '62 Pontiac 421-405hp combination was listed with and without the lightweight components, which we do not have in the current Class Guide. In 1969, C/S was an 8.50 break; in 1970, C/S was an 8.00 break. The lightweight component car would have made C/S easily @ 8.57 factor.


Odd items:
1) I cannot find a listing for the '68 Dart SS Hemi car.
2) The ZL1 '69 Corvette is in the guide
3) The LS7 '70 Corvette is in the guide

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

For your inquiry, here is what I found:


302-290 Z28 315 rating
427-425hp L72 435 rating
427-420hp L88/ZL1 480 rating
302-290hp Boss 330 rating
340-275hp MoPar 310 rating
426-425hp Street Hemi 480 rating
455-370hp Olds W30 380 rating
350-255hp 1969 Chevrolet 265 rating
400-370 1969 Pontiac RAIV 380 rating


Your '62 Pontiac 421-405hp combination was listed with and without the lightweight components, which we do not have in the current Class Guide. In 1969, C/S was an 8.50 break; in 1970, C/S was an 8.00 break. The lightweight component car would have made C/S easily @ 8.57 factor.


Odd items:
1) I cannot find a listing for the '68 Dart SS Hemi car.
2) The ZL1 '69 Corvette is in the guide
3) The LS7 '70 Corvette is in the guide

Thanks Dwight this is filling in a lot of details.
Those factored HP make a lot of those cars fit the class they ran in.
I did read that the 340/275 was factored to 310hp in Nov.67.
Also read that the 426/425 Hemi was factored at 465hp circa 1966-68 somewhere, so must have moved up to a 480hp factor later.


Agreed on those "allowed" combos that never existed - the Hydromatic sedan deliveries, and all those automatic HiPo Fords. All the 352HiPo, 390HiPo, 406, and 427solid Fords I know of were stick shift only except for a few dozen 64 Thunderbolts. But all those engines were allowed with automatics behind them. Oh well.


On the Pontiac Saga - I think I am on track to solve part of it.
The mystery comes from this story on the 1963 Swiss Cheese Packer / Masales car- says here it set the C/S record IN 1963 at 12.27 at 114.6mph.


http://www.supercars.net/blog/1963-p...-swiss-cheese/


However, I found this link detailing the class records as of June 1968:


http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...ecords.298236/


Note the C/S=9.00 record is listed as a 1962 421 Super Duty, exactly the same et/mph, 12.27 at 114.6.
So it looks like indeed that record was still standing but was set by a 1962 Cat, not a 1963 Swiss Cheese Cat.


That 1962 Cat (maybe it was in fact Masales, I cant find that info) would likely have weighed at least 3650 even with aluminum, putting it into SS/S in 1962 but C/S=9.00 in 1968 (or today, since todays upper brackets are the 1968 brackets.


The numbers jive with this story - the 1962 Cat held the 9.00 record as late as 1968 when C/S=9.00. I suspect the supercars.net link is mixing up a 1963 Swiss Cat with a 1962 Aluminum Cat, perhaps both Masales cars.


I don't think the Swiss Cheese Cats were ever allowed in STOCK, not 1963, not 1968, not ever, as only a few were built, 14 IIRC. Stuck in A/FX or B/FX at least in NHRA. There were over 150 Aluminum Cats so those were allowed in Stock.


Some good info in this link too, Milt Schornack's Bobcat book, notes Masales driving in 1962, and the ballasting (150+Lb spare tire) used in the 1963 Swiss Cheese Cats. At 3300lb, the unballasted Swiss Cats could run A/FX, but I think they were typically ballasted up (in the rear I bet) to B/FX=9.00 lb/CID weight. The real Swiss Cheese times I have found range from 11.69-12.59 at 117-123mph, so that 114.6mph always seemed a bit slow to me for a Swiss car.
.
https://books.google.com/books?id=P8...les%22&f=false


I am trying to figure this out one snipet at a time so of course comments welcome if anybody remembers details.
It brings back my memories of hearing on the car radio:
"Sundaaaaaaaaaaaay, at Detroit Dragwaaaaaaaaaay"
At least I got to run there a couple times. Long gone today.

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by TOM KASCH

Have a lot ,but can't resize them to fit.

I was disappointed that they left off the r/u of O/SA because it was yours truly.
Dick Butler 14.266 94.4 MPH.
Still think that running without water in the motor(therefore no resistance to water pump) helped the winner...

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

I was disappointed that they left off the r/u of O/SA because it was yours truly.
Dick Butler 14.266 94.4 MPH.
Still think that running without water in the motor(therefore no resistance to water pump) helped the winner...

Dick,
If you can provide details about your combo it would help my historical effort. Year/make/model/engine/trans/rear, anything else special.


Also if you recall any of the other cars on that sheet - some of them are obviously "brake light" runs so I don't learn much from Gonkulating them. EG I think these were "Brake Light" runs:
A/SA Cohen 427/425?
D/SA Morgan 426/415 wagon?
F/SA Kost w30
H/SA kenney
H/SA Dillman, something broke?
J/SA Andrews
M/SA Iaconio
N/SA Boertman Biscayne LM1
As you can see I am scrounging to determine the model/engine of these cars, but the Brake Light runs don't really matter since I am trying to match the MPH.

As you know the sheet just says "69 Chev" etc, no model, no engine/hp so it's often hard to figure out.

I am also looking for results like these (or records) from 1971, particularly on 1970-71 model cars, but it sure is hard to find.

[Dick Butler]

My car was a 56 2 dr 150 wagon. (it was the John Dianna Delivery I converted )
I ran 265, corvette 225 hp with 2 four barrels and a Powerglide. I had only run car 2 weeks before in this form. I was a true beginner.

Note: most of the 69 350 cars were running the low 255 hp.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

My car was a 56 2 dr 150 wagon. (it was the John Dianna Delivery I converted )
I ran 265, corvette 225 hp with 2 four barrels and a Powerglide. I had only run car 2 weeks before in this form. I was a true beginner.

Note: most of the 69 350 cars were running the low 285 hp.

Thanks Dick.
That's the level of detail that helps.
I ran your combo in the Gonkulator I wrote- what is becoming my "standard 265/225" now Gonkulates at about 290-300hp gross at 6000 or so. Fat cam, loose clearances, etc. I hit the 94+ mph on the 1st computer run, but I had to use a 4000 stall and about a 5.36 gear to get down to your 14.27 ET.
Sound about right?


Agreed, pretty much if it says "69 Chev" it means 350/255hp/LM1 - factored already to 270hp but still strong.

[Rich Biebel]

Nate Cohen 427/425 was a 67 Fairlane I believe. Joe Kenny was a 62 Mopar wagon 383/343. Frank Iaconio was a 57 Chevy 2dr sedan run with a 250 HP FI engine with a P/G.Dave Boertman was a 69 full size Chevy with a 350/255, Bill Morgan was a max wedge Plymouth wagon....as in Tritak and Morgan....War Wagon