Another transbrake thread, & tires

S/G 386N · 08-11-2009, 08:05 PM

Trying to pick up my reaction time so I can get a bit more delay in the box to play with. Was thinking about going to a Hipster or Grinder transbrake. Anyone with experience on either one? Any feedback to reliability and consistancy?

Also thinking about going to a 23" front tire compared to the current 24". Wondering how much time this might pick up.

Bryan Gillespie · 08-12-2009, 05:21 AM

Had .a alum. Hipster and didn't care for it .

Dave Steltz · 08-12-2009, 07:05 AM

I have also heard that the Hipster aluminum ones are not as good, but I have a steel one and with a shimmed soleniod it was worth about .025 over a TCI pro-brake...

Not sure about the tires, but it ought to give you a little...

My experiences have shown me that other than the brake all the real gains I ever saw were from working on the suspension, and leave rpm's....getting the chassis to react faster....

Michael Pliska · 08-12-2009, 07:07 AM

I would be curious to know which brake is the fastest, and how much RT you picked up with it. I'm running a TCI brake from the mid-1980's, so I imagine there is some room for improvement.

As far as tires, IIRC when I swapped from 25" front tires to 23" (which actually measured around 22.6"), I gained between 0.015 and 0.020 in RT. I've got the 25's back on the car right now for no-electronics bracket racing, but will probably switch back if I can't redlight with them when I run S/G in a few weeks.

Regards,

63corvette · 08-12-2009, 07:58 AM

JJ, you want to stay away from the aluminum valve bodies in my opinion.
I build race transmissions and that has been my experience.
Ten or fifteen years ago I worked with B&M on their development on their alum. valve body for a powerglide.
Those just did not work out very well at that time. My personal feeling is that the pistons and valve parts are steel and with the body being alum the growth rates being different the clearances changed as the transmission heated up. That in turn affected the consistantcies and another problem was if the pump pressure ever fell below 150 to 170 at idle when you applied the brake the car would back up a short distance. That issue was a major one as you stage the car. I first thought it was a clearance issue with the band for first gear or the reverse pack but found it was with the body.
Just my opinion is that you stay away from the alum bodies.
Most of the GM bodies that have been converted to a brake are all done the same.
The major difference on all the manufacturers is whether they use a spring on the reverse apply piston in the body.
Most all the major manufacturers will work the same if the brake solenoid is shimmed.
The torque converter also has an affect on how fast the car leaves and if it matches the cam torque band.
JJ, with a Davis car you should be able to go red anywhere. I can with mine which is an 07 model.
Good Luck at the races.
My 2 Cents
Rick

S/G 386N · 08-12-2009, 08:23 AM

Thanks for the responses. I think the problem I'm having is we changed the suspension so I can bracket race the car and run it flat out. Moved the instant center quite a bit forward, and can actually pull a 1.15 60', launching at 3400 rpms, riding the bar the whole time. Have had the car down to 7.99 flat out, which I'm told is not possible in a Davis car. Any higher launch RPM, and it just rides the bar forever. Thinking about taking the suspension back to the way it was, and just bracket race on the throttle stop and see what happens, but would like to explore other options first.

Rick Blake · 08-12-2009, 08:48 AM

Have the same problem off the stop....wants to go on the bumper and carries the hoops clear through the 60', best to date was at Immokalee: 1.13 60' & 5.13 @ 136mph in 95* very high humidity and 3500+ air. I don't bracket race much, mainly Quick 32 stuff and just use the stop, don't want to touch my .90 setup, works too good.

I'm using a "BTE" Pro Brake and it's quick, just my .02

Keith 944 · 08-12-2009, 04:48 PM

my question, how to shim the solenoid, between the trans case and solenoid or the plunger itself ? and how much shim? use washers, or is there a shim for this purpose?

Bryan Gillespie · 08-13-2009, 05:02 AM

mine had 2 shims (washers), but brake wouldn't hold @ high rpm, unscrew solenoid and place shim or shims and screw back in.

63corvette · 08-13-2009, 08:55 AM

Keith, you shim between the solenoid and the case with a washer or washers.
You need to have the pan off and it is much easier to do with the trans on the work bench. Back out the solenoid to see when the reverse piston is engaged into the valve body .010 to .020 with the solenoid in the activated position. Then measure the distance between the case and the base of the solenoid and find a washer that is that distance thick or just a few thousands less and install that washer.
I have found transmissions that needed as much as .150 and some that needed nothing with the average being around .090.
I would guess and that is only a guess that if you needed a shim of .090 you should pick up about .020 of reaction time or maybe just a little more. There are lots of variables on this but it will help the reaction time for sure.
If you shim it out to far the trans brake will not hold or it will shudder the whole car and not hold so be careful if you are not sure what you are doing.
Just My 2 Cents

08-11-2009, 08:05 PM	#1
S/G 386N Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Fishers, IN Posts: 103 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another transbrake thread, & tires Trying to pick up my reaction time so I can get a bit more delay in the box to play with. Was thinking about going to a Hipster or Grinder transbrake. Anyone with experience on either one? Any feedback to reliability and consistancy? Also thinking about going to a 23" front tire compared to the current 24". Wondering how much time this might pick up. __________________ JJ Nance '06 Don Davis C5 Corvette

08-12-2009, 05:21 AM	#2
Bryan Gillespie Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 456 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires Had .a alum. Hipster and didn't care for it .

08-12-2009, 07:05 AM	#3
Dave Steltz Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 323 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires I have also heard that the Hipster aluminum ones are not as good, but I have a steel one and with a shimmed soleniod it was worth about .025 over a TCI pro-brake... Not sure about the tires, but it ought to give you a little... My experiences have shown me that other than the brake all the real gains I ever saw were from working on the suspension, and leave rpm's....getting the chassis to react faster.... __________________ Dave Steltz 135G SG/SP/SST BIAECH Racing Team

08-12-2009, 07:07 AM	#4
Michael Pliska Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Happy Valley, OR Posts: 260 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires I would be curious to know which brake is the fastest, and how much RT you picked up with it. I'm running a TCI brake from the mid-1980's, so I imagine there is some room for improvement. As far as tires, IIRC when I swapped from 25" front tires to 23" (which actually measured around 22.6"), I gained between 0.015 and 0.020 in RT. I've got the 25's back on the car right now for no-electronics bracket racing, but will probably switch back if I can't redlight with them when I run S/G in a few weeks. Regards, __________________ Michael Pliska 643 S/G

08-12-2009, 07:58 AM	#5
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 535 Likes: 117 Liked 281 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires JJ, you want to stay away from the aluminum valve bodies in my opinion. I build race transmissions and that has been my experience. Ten or fifteen years ago I worked with B&M on their development on their alum. valve body for a powerglide. Those just did not work out very well at that time. My personal feeling is that the pistons and valve parts are steel and with the body being alum the growth rates being different the clearances changed as the transmission heated up. That in turn affected the consistantcies and another problem was if the pump pressure ever fell below 150 to 170 at idle when you applied the brake the car would back up a short distance. That issue was a major one as you stage the car. I first thought it was a clearance issue with the band for first gear or the reverse pack but found it was with the body. Just my opinion is that you stay away from the alum bodies. Most of the GM bodies that have been converted to a brake are all done the same. The major difference on all the manufacturers is whether they use a spring on the reverse apply piston in the body. Most all the major manufacturers will work the same if the brake solenoid is shimmed. The torque converter also has an affect on how fast the car leaves and if it matches the cam torque band. JJ, with a Davis car you should be able to go red anywhere. I can with mine which is an 07 model. Good Luck at the races. My 2 Cents Rick

08-12-2009, 08:23 AM	#6
S/G 386N Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Fishers, IN Posts: 103 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires Thanks for the responses. I think the problem I'm having is we changed the suspension so I can bracket race the car and run it flat out. Moved the instant center quite a bit forward, and can actually pull a 1.15 60', launching at 3400 rpms, riding the bar the whole time. Have had the car down to 7.99 flat out, which I'm told is not possible in a Davis car. Any higher launch RPM, and it just rides the bar forever. Thinking about taking the suspension back to the way it was, and just bracket race on the throttle stop and see what happens, but would like to explore other options first. __________________ JJ Nance '06 Don Davis C5 Corvette

08-12-2009, 08:48 AM	#7
Rick Blake Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SW FLORIDA Posts: 208 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires Have the same problem off the stop....wants to go on the bumper and carries the hoops clear through the 60', best to date was at Immokalee: 1.13 60' & 5.13 @ 136mph in 95* very high humidity and 3500+ air. I don't bracket race much, mainly Quick 32 stuff and just use the stop, don't want to touch my .90 setup, works too good. I'm using a "BTE" Pro Brake and it's quick, just my .02 __________________ Rick Blake 2395 SG, SC, SP

08-12-2009, 04:48 PM	#8
Keith 944 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dela-where? Posts: 2,115 Likes: 1,003 Liked 1,641 Times in 520 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires my question, how to shim the solenoid, between the trans case and solenoid or the plunger itself ? and how much shim? use washers, or is there a shim for this purpose?

08-13-2009, 05:02 AM	#9
Bryan Gillespie Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 456 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires mine had 2 shims (washers), but brake wouldn't hold @ high rpm, unscrew solenoid and place shim or shims and screw back in.

08-13-2009, 08:55 AM	#10
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 535 Likes: 117 Liked 281 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Another transbrake thread, & tires Keith, you shim between the solenoid and the case with a washer or washers. You need to have the pan off and it is much easier to do with the trans on the work bench. Back out the solenoid to see when the reverse piston is engaged into the valve body .010 to .020 with the solenoid in the activated position. Then measure the distance between the case and the base of the solenoid and find a washer that is that distance thick or just a few thousands less and install that washer. I have found transmissions that needed as much as .150 and some that needed nothing with the average being around .090. I would guess and that is only a guess that if you needed a shim of .090 you should pick up about .020 of reaction time or maybe just a little more. There are lots of variables on this but it will help the reaction time for sure. If you shim it out to far the trans brake will not hold or it will shudder the whole car and not hold so be careful if you are not sure what you are doing. Just My 2 Cents

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