Time to Revisit the Super Times?

[Chris Williams]

This is a retread of a old topic, but as I sit here trying to decide between SC and TD it's been bugging me. And something Jeff Beckman said the other day made me think of it again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea behind TD and TS was to a) give people who wanted to go faster, but didn't have the coin for alky or complicated eliminator a place to go below SC and SG, b) give a more fan-friendly race without several seconds on a throttle stop. And it worked, guys who wanted to go faster started to move into those classes, and it's clear that people like to run them and watch them.

This was all pretty cool when TD was in the mid-low 7s. Most guys in SC could simply turn off the stop and get into a field, if only at the bottom of the ladder. Then the arms race began. Now, in several divisions, you need to be in the 6s to even make a field. Without a monster car that's blown or squirting a ton, and well north of 1500hp, you're on the trailer.

So here we are today, that my choice is to run SC, at 8.90 with the car on the stop for a long time, or spend $50k and build an engine to make a TD field at 6.90. Even with a car that'll pull a 7.60 flat out, I've got nowhere to go. Sure I can go race in my local Super Pro and run 7.60 against full-body pickups doing 10.40. But that's really my only other option.

My question, then, is: does it really make sense to have a two-second difference (8.90 to 6.90) in the range of classes? And does it still make sense to have the Super classes at the same index they were when they were created ever so long ago?

I know this is a tired question, and there was this poll done (with terrible questions), and this is supposedly settled. But I think it's worth a revisit.

Here's my proposal:

Turn the Supers (at least SC and SG, I don't know much about Super Street) into much simpler classes. Basic rules are .400 pro tree, electronics and stops allowed, dragsters/door cars/altereds/roadsters/whatever are fine in any of them. Make the indexes really simple and easy to understand: 8.00, 9.00, 10.00? (maybe even an 11.00?). How many times have you had to explain that an 8.989 is way slow, but an 8.899 is too fast? This is simple: if the time starts with a 7 (or 8, or 9...) it's too fast. Virtually anyone today can run one of these classes. You can't get your dragster down to an 8.00? Fine run the 9.00 class.

Not only will it give the faster SC guys a place to race without having to spend a fortune on a motor (or a 6.00 chassis, or get a 3A license and or a -15 suit) but it has the wonderful side effect of cutting the time people are on the stop dramatically. That, along with the easy-to-understand indexes, will make the racing much more fan-friendly.

I know I'm tilting at windmills and this will fall on deaf ears, but what do you all think of this?

[luckydog]

[Jeff Beckman]

This would make people (also known as NHRA employeees), (not to be confussed with the guys working thier asses off for minamum wage at the track) think, and make decisions. Not going to happen. Along with others (racers) who will stand in line to complain, any change hardly seems worth it in our complacent society.

What is needed is a new Real Drag Racing sanctioning body. Started for racers by racers, if I had the money or support I would do it tomorrow.

[C and W Racing]

What is needed is a new Real Drag Racing sanctioning body. Started for racers by racers, if I had the money or support I would do it tomorrow.[/QUOTE]

Come on Jeff, you know you have the money. lol
Chuck

[DIAPERMAN]

Come on Chipmunk dig into that stash

[voltdr]

Originally Posted by luckydog

Now that is some funny ***** right there..............

We just went through this. Everyone voted to keep thing the same. This is why TD has gotten out of control. If you let the racer decide how fast to go, then the guys with the $$$$$ can take control. I know it is still a bracket race, after qualifying, but it is still intimidating knowing you have to run 6.80s just to get in. Why not make it a 64 car field.

[Chris Williams]

Originally Posted by voltdr

Now that is some funny ***** right there..............

We just went through this. Everyone voted to keep thing the same. This is why TD has gotten out of control. If you let the racer decide how fast to go, then the guys with the $$$$$ can take control. I know it is still a bracket race, after qualifying, but it is still intimidating knowing you have to run 6.80s just to get in. Why not make it a 64 car field.

I beg to differ. Everyone did NOT vote to keep everything the same. In fact more people voted for some kind of change than to keep it the same. They just didn't agree on what to change it to. The choices were lame, so the change vote was split, and the largest single vote was for no change. In short, the survey was poorly done.

I still contend that there is a something wrong with a 2+ second difference between classes. If you can't run mid-high 6's your next choice is to run almost 9 seconds. That's just stupid, especially when the difference in cost is tens of thousands of dollars. You can build a very competent SC car for $50k, but it will cost you twice that to make the TD fields in many divisions.

[Jason Oldfield]

I would contend that to build a competitive S/C car these days, you need to run in the mid-7s, which is exactly where you are at (mid-8s for S/G, and mid-9s for S/St). So, I don't see it as a 2 second difference between the classes, but 1 second, just like every other class.

Sure, there is close to a 2 second difference between the classes when you are running on the stop and the current T/D bump, but that's not a fair comparison in my opinion because you are CHOOSING to run the car on the throttle stop. Alternatively, you could choose to sell your current motor to one with less power and turn your throttle stop off and still run 8.90s. Sure, I know this sounds ridiculous, and it is, just like the current state of the .90 classes.

We'll never get any sort of consensus as to how the changes to the classes should be implemented because everyone is only looking out for their own best interests (and I'm not saying that I would be any different). In the end, the racers have spoken - run the .90 classes as they are now, run T/S or T/D, or stay home and run the brackets if you don't like it (which is what I've chosen to do, along with racing the TNT Super Street Series).

And as Damien said:

[CBS]

Don't bring the dead horse out again..(thanks for the dead horse examples).......I can't take it....I would think I was in the SS forum.....lol

Race S/C and have fun...if you think you will move to T/D and win more I think you're mistaken.....

Can't we get back to why Tommy D is ......xxxx

Rock Haas

[Chris Williams]

What you're saying is:

• A person has two choices: spend about as much as a new Honda civic and run SC, or spend six figures and run TD.
• The HP choices are 750 and 1750, nothing in between.
• A motor in the 1000-1200 range that just two years ago would have been the cat's meow is little more than a boat anchor.
• There's no place in the world for a big naturally aspirated motor.
• The genius who decided that a time of x.90 regardless of how confusing that is, was the right and that can never be revisited.
• Classes established years ago when just meeting the index was considered a good accomplishment can't be changed even though people commonly run 1.5secs under that.
• The only choice is cars that run on the stop for 1/3rd of the pass and drive fans away in droves.
• That the arms race is over and the $$ won.

It's just frigging broken. I don't care how many comics of a dead horse you guys post, it's stupid.

And yes, Rock, I'm gonna run SC but not because that's the only choice I have. I can afford to build a blown/squirted monster and compete in TD, it just seems stupid to do so.