Make the Chevrolet Win

[Larry Hill]

From what I here NMCA is a better deal. Track prep is better, more runs due to all run field. Not sure how much entry fee is for NMCA.

Having two NHRA races back to back for the Show Down cars puts team parts inventory at a premium.

Just where does a racer go test to get one of these cars to go A to B?

[Geoff Turk]

Ok, I couldn’t resist any longer

As one of the Dodges running the ‘bogus’ engine combination but who also actively campaigned (and routinely qualified in the top 6-8 out of 15-20 participants) with the ‘factory’ engine combination, here’s my offer:

To David Barton and/or Stephen Bell, I will reinstall the ‘factory’ engine that truly used production car/truck (not ‘production’ as in we put it in a ‘factory’ race car we sold a few of but ‘production’ as in it comes from a production car / truck that were sold by the tens of thousands), remove my production hood (that I cut a few inches of sheet metal out of the underside) to accommodate my non ‘factory’ installed air inlet and I will return to running zero air inlet system, drawing air from the back of the radiator, oh yeah, for David, I’ll also take off my ‘remote’ water pump that is bolted to the block and move the engine back to the exact location it was in (man, those were such huge gains).

You guys find some production heads and block (as in came in a Chevy car or truck, but you can cnc the heads), remove your purpose built special hood (is it really carbon fiber ?) that only came on a ‘factory’ race car and the related air inlet system that goes with it (that was also not ever on a production car)

And then, we meet at a track somewhere and run ‘em, 2 out of 3.

If I lose, I will publicly appologize for all the Dodges now running at the front with stuff we installed, that’s kind of like yours, but we had to put in after we got the car from the ‘factory’ (a small facility that finishes building 50+ hand built cars /year, kind of like the ‘factories’ your cars came from) BUT if I win, you have to never, ever again say how our current engines are bogus and not ‘factory’, our hoods / radiator supports are cut and that we have ‘remote’ water pumps.

You guys in ? Oh, and I’ll even let you guys keep your non production car/truck heads and block, special hood and air intake if you just let me keep my ‘cut’ production hood and air intake (I’ll run the special ‘bogus or not ?’ match race I am proposing with my ‘truck’ engine). We can all run at 3,550, right ? (And I won’t ask you to tape cardboard boxes to your cars to get to the same cross sectional area or drag coefficient).

Let’s schedule it and get this over with so we can go back out, work on our cars and race in the NHRA / NMCA, the people who continue to give us an awesome opportunity to be a part of one of the coolest classes that’s come along in drag racing in a while.

BTW, do I look fat in the Challenger ? I think I look good with the extra 25lbs, right buddies ? (don’t answer this). See you out there

[Rob Wright]

If leveling horsepower would please everyone that's not horribly difficult. A fixed diameter orifice with flow certification (issued by NHRA) installed before the fuel pressure regulator, plus a max spec for fuel pressure, would accomplish that. Not hard.

Each vehicle platform has its own advantages & disadvantages and those would be more difficult to quantify & sort out effective countermeasures to equalize all of them. Regardless, it all needs to be considered since there is more going down the track than "The Motor".

The real lack of parody seems to be each manufacturer's rep's ability to get submissions in (cars and parts) and approved.

One gains submission approvals for new engines, etc. that retro back several production years, favorable HP ratings vs submitted engine specs, blocks with big lifters & purpose made heads, etc.

Another had a similar thing going on until their rep made a career change & left, but they had a pretty good go at gaining submission approval with emails and no sample part reviews.

The third rep seems to be unwilling to make submissions that retro back, or somehow if they are trying their submissions are refused. Also, they seem to be less willing to invest in bespoke parts and instead are using items from their "general use" catalog. This actually makes sense if you're running a business to make money, instead of making heavy investment to create bespoke parts that are not produced in any appreciable volume and therefore are not generally available & cannot be sold at a profit.

When I was involved with this on the OEM side, I suggested that all submissions should be reviewed by NHRA and engineering people from each OEM before they are approved. I also suggested that denial or disapproval from a competitor's OEM must include sound reasoning (technical facts) to support their argument. This way it would be less likely to become an emotionally fueled pitch battle.......Just facts & data.

I also suggested that all new car submissions should be demonstrated on-track with engineering reps from each OEM and NHRA present, at a location of NHRA's choice, before the new car is approved. This would include a review of ECU and vehicle data logger information by all present to avoid having submissions pass through with sandbagging measures like throttle cables set to only open the blades 50% or spark retarded 15°.

I still tend to think this is a good idea, and nobody was ever able to present a sound argument against it.

Back to the retro submissions & parts on the fly for a minute, if a decision was made by NHRA that says there will be no new engines, extensive vehicle modifications, air intakes, etc. accepted for older model year cars that were already submitted and accepted, what should be done with the cars/combinations that are already out there today?

[Rob Wright]

Originally Posted by Ralph A Powell

Chevy did same thing with the first batch of COPO's when they recalled the production blocks and heads on the S/C engines with the LSX blocks and heads non production parts that were not installed on those cars. So you should say that Chevy started the practice.

The blocks were never recalled, and every single one of them had an iron LSX block from the git-go.

Heads with extra helper bolts were provided after a management decision to use 4-bolt heads (from a surplus of existing inventory) was not successful. Customers were able to keep their original heads and they got brand-new 6-bolt heads, plus gaskets, bolts, and an apology letter.

[Bunkster]

Why is this thread conjuring up visions of boxy Fairmonts and 4-door Mavericks?

[Steve Stasko]

Question about the Dodge hood. I get it was changed from the Drag Pak hood, but the "new" hood is a factory production piece. (I have one on my daily driver.) My question is why the air box change? Is the opening in the hood not large enough? I have seen the photos with the wide box, but it still necks down into a single opening...not to mention the radiator support modification...

I would think the NACA duct style scoop would be somewhat effective in pulling air since the opening is along the base of the hood as opposed to raised in the air. While I don't know how much room there is once the hood is closed, I would think a modified box would be able to be built pulling air from the factory opening, and necking down right into the throttle body, without cutting the radiator support. It would definitely lend a more "production" approach to the hood.

Pics of a production car for reference... Maybe I think about things too much...

[SSGT Mustang]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

I see NHRA added 50 to the Dodge Factory Cars. I mean the Chevrolet has to win. No Matter what. Only happens when the Dodges win. Don't matter who is working on them or tuning on them, the Chevrolet has to win by hook or crook. Mostly by crook. While we are at it, if you should desire to run a Hellcat in Stock, you only have to weigh 4770 lbs. That is like racing with 4 of me in the back seat. And all the new Stock Chevrolet Camaro are a few hundred lbs lighter than other new stock cars, but it's a Chevrolet. It has to win at any cost.

Exactly. It's been that way for as far back as I can remember. It is what it is.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Steve Stasko

Question about the Dodge hood. I get it was changed from the Drag Pak hood, but the "new" hood is a factory production piece. (I have one on my daily driver.) My question is why the air box change? Is the opening in the hood not large enough? I have seen the photos with the wide box, but it still necks down into a single opening...not to mention the radiator support modification...

I would think the NACA duct style scoop would be somewhat effective in pulling air since the opening is along the base of the hood as opposed to raised in the air. While I don't know how much room there is once the hood is closed, I would think a modified box would be able to be built pulling air from the factory opening, and necking down right into the throttle body, without cutting the radiator support. It would definitely lend a more "production" approach to the hood.

Pics of a production car for reference... Maybe I think about things too much...

I don't think that you can get near the air that you need through the stock opening.

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by larry hill

from what i here nmca is a better deal. Track prep is better, more runs due to all run field. Not sure how much entry fee is for nmca.

Having two nhra races back to back for the show down cars puts team parts inventory at a premium.

Just where does a racer go test to get one of these cars to go a to b?

175.00

[theman440]

Originally Posted by Geoff Turk

Ok, I couldn’t resist any longer

As one of the Dodges running the ‘bogus’ engine combination but who also actively campaigned (and routinely qualified in the top 6-8 out of 15-20 participants) with the ‘factory’ engine combination, here’s my offer:

To David Barton and/or Stephen Bell, I will reinstall the ‘factory’ engine that truly used production car/truck (not ‘production’ as in we put it in a ‘factory’ race car we sold a few of but ‘production’ as in it comes from a production car / truck that were sold by the tens of thousands), remove my production hood (that I cut a few inches of sheet metal out of the underside) to accommodate my non ‘factory’ installed air inlet and I will return to running zero air inlet system, drawing air from the back of the radiator, oh yeah, for David, I’ll also take off my ‘remote’ water pump that is bolted to the block and move the engine back to the exact location it was in (man, those were such huge gains).

You guys find some production heads and block (as in came in a Chevy car or truck, but you can cnc the heads), remove your purpose built special hood (is it really carbon fiber ?) that only came on a ‘factory’ race car and the related air inlet system that goes with it (that was also not ever on a production car)

And then, we meet at a track somewhere and run ‘em, 2 out of 3.

If I lose, I will publicly appologize for all the Dodges now running at the front with stuff we installed, that’s kind of like yours, but we had to put in after we got the car from the ‘factory’ (a small facility that finishes building 50+ hand built cars /year, kinds of like the ‘factories’ your cars came from) BUT if I win, you have to never, ever again say how our current engines are bogus and not ‘factory’, are hoods / radiator supports are cut and that we have ‘remote’ water pumps.

You guys in ? Oh, and I’ll even let you guys keep your non production car/truck heads and block, special hood and air intake if you just let me keep my ‘cut’ production hood and air intake (I’ll run the special ‘bogus or not ?’ race with my ‘truck’ engine). We can all run at 3,550, right ? (And I won’t ask you to tape cardboard boxes to your cars to get to the same cross sectional area or drag coefficient).

Let’s schedule it and get this over with so we can go back out, work on our cars and race in the NHRA / NMCA, the people who continue to give us an awesome opportunity to be a part of one of the coolest classes that’s come along in drag racing in a while.

BTW, do I look fat in the Challenger ? I think I look good with the extra 25lbs, right buddies ? (don’t answer this). See you out there

Waiting with baited breath . . .