64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis - Page 5

Mopar Steve · 10-11-2009, 04:58 PM

Hinged. Most had two front pins though.

Jeff Teuton · 10-11-2009, 05:29 PM

The Chuck Raburn car was Tim Heberts car which was Jim Hale's car who built it as a clone. A very good car. I suspect Jim has just built another clone. He may have the hood scoop worked in smooth, but I doubt if its glass. Lift off mmmmmm our original had hinges.

X-TECH MAN · 10-11-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mopar Steve

Hinged. Most had two front pins though.

Maybe it was a change as they were built ??? but the pictures I have show 4 hood pins and complete removal of the hood in the pits and placed on the roof of the cars. (Both Dodge and Plymouth). Hayden Profitts, Roger Lindamood, Dan "smoker" smith and a solid red Dodge that I cant identify. Maybe one of the "Senior" Hemi (1964) racers will read this thread and comment. Thanks for your comments.

mopar68 · 10-11-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

Maybe we should go back as far as the inception of the GT Classes to see the "intent". Which I thought was to allow the mixing of SS engine combos and body combinations that weren't available with each other. Our resident GT historian Don Kennedy might be able to shine a little more light on the reason for GT Classes.

Yeah, maybe we should: The original Super Stock GT classes were designed for early-model engines in late-model cars. Period. Nothing else!!

M68

bill dedman · 10-11-2009, 06:40 PM

Several things I don't understand, here (maybe I'm not supposed to)...

1. The wheelbase should stay with the chassis, right? I.E., if the car body was from a '64 Plymouth Hemi car that originally had a 1-inch shorter wheelbase (than the rest of the '64 b-body Pilgrims), why would NHRA tech disallow that wheelbase just because another engine will be run in the car (say, a 340?) as a GT car?????? Or, would they?

2. In a GT class car, If you run a non-fresh air engine in a car body that came from the factory with a fresh air scoop (say, a '68 Hemi Barracuda, for instance), wouldn't it be mandatory to close off that fresh air if your engine didn't have a fresh air variant, in which case, you'd just use the only factor listed? Could you just remove the scoop and make a "flat hood" out of it, or, does the scoop have to stay, even though it's closed off at the bottom, and is non-functioning???

3. What is the downside of the "new" rules that allow "old bodies" with newer engines to run GT? People are talking about possibly reverting back to the "old rules", and I don't understand the reason why.

Anybody? Don't we need all the cars we can attract?

Thanks for any information...

mopar68 · 10-11-2009, 06:45 PM

"Maybe it was a change as they were built ??? but the pictures I have show 4 hood pins and complete removal of the hood in the pits and placed on the roof of the cars."

IMO, this does not sound like a factory setup. At least not for Super/Stock. Maybe A/FX? If I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that it was a racer modification.

Personally, I've never seen any pix of those cars with a quick release (i.e. hood pins) system installed allowing quick hood removal.

Here are some early pix of those cars at Beeline Dragway in 1964:

http://arizonaracinghistory.com/64winternats.htm

Granted, most if not all of those cars pictured there are Max Wedge cars since (I'm pretty sure) the 426 HEMI was released in April of 1964.*

M68

* Or was it February?

** Yeah, it was February 1964 because Richard Petty won the Daytona 500 with a Hemi under the hood as well as the 2nd and 3rd place finishers.

mopar68 · 10-11-2009, 07:07 PM

Hmmm....Lindamood's '64 car has the hood pins at the rear of hood.

http://www.quartermilestones.com/pho...n2/RMA6401.jpg

I don't believe Roger's car would've ever passed tech if it were not a factory modification.

Now I don't know what to think.

M68

mopar68 · 10-11-2009, 07:31 PM

"Sometime after a build date of February 17, 1964, Manessis took delivery of his Dodge 330 and began to campaign the aluminum-paneled sedan. With its hinged aluminum hood; dual hump aluminum hoodscoop; aluminum fenders; aluminum bumper brackets; and acid-dipped components including the front bumper, doors and decklid, all seemed well."

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...330/index.html

1964 Hemi Plymouth Savoy - The First Satellite Super Commando

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...ndo/index.html

M68

mopar68 · 10-11-2009, 07:46 PM

1964 Dodge Hemi - High Flyer - The Honker Flies Again

"The '64 Hemi cars have become some of the most important race machinery in today's collector market, and for good reason. They represented the furthest frontier of production-line, stock-bodied, drag-car development at the time. The Ford Thunderbolts released months earlier had made use of fiberglass body pieces, but Chrysler decided to stick with aluminum that had characterized the Max Wedge cars that had preceded the Hemi, and bolted together the requisite 50 examples for S/S legality. Numbered code 7 on the buildsheet, it included aluminum doors, front fenders, hood with undimpled scoop (the Max Wedge versions had a dip in the middle of the forward opening) held on with a large wing nut on all four corners, radiator support, and other small pieces; a few like this one even got aluminum front bumpers."

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...dge/index.html

I stand corrected.

M68

James L Miller · 10-11-2009, 07:49 PM

First, I'd like to know who at IHRA will approve fiberglass replacements for aluminum body panels? I e-mailed IHRA about five years ago and was told it was NOT legal. I wish it was legal, fiberglass nose is what $2k? Aluminum nose, $20k? I'd be happy with just a glass hood and scoop and run steel fenders. They could make the fiberglass need to weigh as much as the aluminum to make things fair.

The steel and aluminum front end rules have changed back and forth over the last several years. For a while, the only legal 1964 Belvedere HT Hemi car was with aluminum (Steel was legal, but had to run at the aluminum weight). Then they added the single 4bbl (Circle Track) combo that had the aluminum front end (steel was legal and had to run at the aluminum weight). Somewhere along here they changed the 250 maximum added weight, so it allowed the crossram Race Hemi to run in something other than SS/B(A). Then NHRA came up the stupid idea that all Race Hemi cars had to have the aluminum to be LEGAL. Steel front end parts were ILLEGAL. Fortunately someone at Chrysler worked with NHRA to allow steel to be LEGAL again.

The current Classification Guide lists the following notes for MW and Hemi cars in 1964-5:

426 Race Hemi cars with 2 carbs were available from factory with either steel or aluminum components (fenders, hood & scoop) depending on plant supply at the time motor installed in car.

426 Race Hemi cars with 1 carb were available from factory with steel components (fenders & hood) with the addition of steel or aluminum hood scoop..

426 Wedge Al component car required to have aluminum hood with hood scoop, & both aluminum front fenders to be classified as aluminum component car

I doubt that Chrysler originally built the cars with all thread and wing nuts to hold the hoods on, but I've seen the photos of cars with them from "back-in-the-day".

10-11-2009, 04:58 PM	#41
Mopar Steve Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Castle, PA Posts: 92 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis Hinged. Most had two front pins though.

10-11-2009, 05:29 PM	#42
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 326 Times in 50 Posts	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis The Chuck Raburn car was Tim Heberts car which was Jim Hale's car who built it as a clone. A very good car. I suspect Jim has just built another clone. He may have the hood scoop worked in smooth, but I doubt if its glass. Lift off mmmmmm our original had hinges. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

10-11-2009, 06:40 PM	#45
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis Several things I don't understand, here (maybe I'm not supposed to)... 1. The wheelbase should stay with the chassis, right? I.E., if the car body was from a '64 Plymouth Hemi car that originally had a 1-inch shorter wheelbase (than the rest of the '64 b-body Pilgrims), why would NHRA tech disallow that wheelbase just because another engine will be run in the car (say, a 340?) as a GT car?????? Or, would they? 2. In a GT class car, If you run a non-fresh air engine in a car body that came from the factory with a fresh air scoop (say, a '68 Hemi Barracuda, for instance), wouldn't it be mandatory to close off that fresh air if your engine didn't have a fresh air variant, in which case, you'd just use the only factor listed? Could you just remove the scoop and make a "flat hood" out of it, or, does the scoop have to stay, even though it's closed off at the bottom, and is non-functioning??? 3. What is the downside of the "new" rules that allow "old bodies" with newer engines to run GT? People are talking about possibly reverting back to the "old rules", and I don't understand the reason why. Anybody? Don't we need all the cars we can attract? Thanks for any information... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 10-11-2009 at 06:44 PM. Reason: mistakes... lots of 'em....

10-11-2009, 06:45 PM	#46
mopar68 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,660 Likes: 8 Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis "Maybe it was a change as they were built ??? but the pictures I have show 4 hood pins and complete removal of the hood in the pits and placed on the roof of the cars." IMO, this does not sound like a factory setup. At least not for Super/Stock. Maybe A/FX? If I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that it was a racer modification. Personally, I've never seen any pix of those cars with a quick release (i.e. hood pins) system installed allowing quick hood removal. Here are some early pix of those cars at Beeline Dragway in 1964: http://arizonaracinghistory.com/64winternats.htm Granted, most if not all of those cars pictured there are Max Wedge cars since (I'm pretty sure) the 426 HEMI was released in April of 1964.* M68 * Or was it February? ** Yeah, it was February 1964 because Richard Petty won the Daytona 500 with a Hemi under the hood as well as the 2nd and 3rd place finishers. Last edited by mopar68; 10-11-2009 at 07:35 PM.

10-11-2009, 07:07 PM	#47
mopar68 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,660 Likes: 8 Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis Hmmm....Lindamood's '64 car has the hood pins at the rear of hood. http://www.quartermilestones.com/pho...n2/RMA6401.jpg I don't believe Roger's car would've ever passed tech if it were not a factory modification. Now I don't know what to think. M68 Last edited by mopar68; 10-11-2009 at 07:12 PM.

10-11-2009, 07:31 PM	#48
mopar68 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,660 Likes: 8 Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis "Sometime after a build date of February 17, 1964, Manessis took delivery of his Dodge 330 and began to campaign the aluminum-paneled sedan. With its hinged aluminum hood; dual hump aluminum hoodscoop; aluminum fenders; aluminum bumper brackets; and acid-dipped components including the front bumper, doors and decklid, all seemed well." http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...330/index.html 1964 Hemi Plymouth Savoy - The First Satellite Super Commando http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...ndo/index.html M68 Last edited by mopar68; 10-11-2009 at 07:35 PM.

10-11-2009, 07:46 PM	#49
mopar68 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,660 Likes: 8 Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis 1964 Dodge Hemi - High Flyer - The Honker Flies Again "The '64 Hemi cars have become some of the most important race machinery in today's collector market, and for good reason. They represented the furthest frontier of production-line, stock-bodied, drag-car development at the time. The Ford Thunderbolts released months earlier had made use of fiberglass body pieces, but Chrysler decided to stick with aluminum that had characterized the Max Wedge cars that had preceded the Hemi, and bolted together the requisite 50 examples for S/S legality. Numbered code 7 on the buildsheet, it included aluminum doors, front fenders, hood with undimpled scoop (the Max Wedge versions had a dip in the middle of the forward opening) held on with a large wing nut on all four corners, radiator support, and other small pieces; a few like this one even got aluminum front bumpers." http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...dge/index.html I stand corrected. M68

10-11-2009, 07:49 PM	#50
James L Miller Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 495 Likes: 6 Liked 24 Times in 15 Posts	Re: 64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis First, I'd like to know who at IHRA will approve fiberglass replacements for aluminum body panels? I e-mailed IHRA about five years ago and was told it was NOT legal. I wish it was legal, fiberglass nose is what $2k? Aluminum nose, $20k? I'd be happy with just a glass hood and scoop and run steel fenders. They could make the fiberglass need to weigh as much as the aluminum to make things fair. The steel and aluminum front end rules have changed back and forth over the last several years. For a while, the only legal 1964 Belvedere HT Hemi car was with aluminum (Steel was legal, but had to run at the aluminum weight). Then they added the single 4bbl (Circle Track) combo that had the aluminum front end (steel was legal and had to run at the aluminum weight). Somewhere along here they changed the 250 maximum added weight, so it allowed the crossram Race Hemi to run in something other than SS/B(A). Then NHRA came up the stupid idea that all Race Hemi cars had to have the aluminum to be LEGAL. Steel front end parts were ILLEGAL. Fortunately someone at Chrysler worked with NHRA to allow steel to be LEGAL again. The current Classification Guide lists the following notes for MW and Hemi cars in 1964-5: 426 Race Hemi cars with 2 carbs were available from factory with either steel or aluminum components (fenders, hood & scoop) depending on plant supply at the time motor installed in car. 426 Race Hemi cars with 1 carb were available from factory with steel components (fenders & hood) with the addition of steel or aluminum hood scoop.. 426 Wedge Al component car required to have aluminum hood with hood scoop, & both aluminum front fenders to be classified as aluminum component car I doubt that Chrysler originally built the cars with all thread and wing nuts to hold the hoods on, but I've seen the photos of cars with them from "back-in-the-day".