Dommination of FI cars.

[Jeff Lee]

A carb meters air & fuel and so does an FI system. I've been able to alter A/F ratio's on a carb (on an engine dyno) along with BSFC numbers to my satisfaction in both Stock and Superstock. And that's using a 4300 Autolite; a carb with no secondary jetting or metering rods. And I would be willing to bet most small block cars (as I believe all the FI cars in S/SS are running a small block) cars have more carb than they need (i.e., T-Quad & Q-Jet). So I could care less about injector sizing or even spray pattern. I would think the tip-in of an automatic transmission FI car would be easier to manage as your not dealing with pump shot and secondary air-valve opening rates. But all those "problems" have been solved bythe sharp tuners.
The bottom line is (like Evan Smith said), they all perform the same functions just in different ways. Some can't even figure how to tune a carb so don't knock a system such as FI when you would be even more lost! I predict there will be more heads up runs in '08 and I agree whole-heartedly this is the best way to go along with counting more runs. The fast cars will be forced to show their hands and the HP factors will adjust accordingly. I would love to see a maximum weight overage also; either 100#'s or must race at next higher class; no 300# overweight cars.

[Alan Roehrich]

The booster venturi is NOT the same as an injector. Nor is the venturi itself. Changing a fuel injector is the same as changing a jet. A fuel injector DOES NOT change airflow (not by itself, unless it protrudes into the air stream, and most do not). Changing a booster venturi will change AIR FLOW, as well as changing HOW fuel flows. The reason you are not allowed to change the booster venturi is because in many cases you can change to a booster venturi that will allow you to flow more air. The amount of misinformation and disinformation disseminated by people who have no idea what they're talking about is amazing.

Fuel injected cars (SOME of them anyway) will have an advantage, at least to begin with. The way to fix that would be to force them to trigger a review with the AHFS. If you take your carbureted car and go home and whimper, it'll never change. If you go race them and make them show their hand, it might just change.

[Larry Munk]

Hows about this one Boys and Girls. Everyone with a small block gets a 750 Holley and everyone with a big block gets a 850 Holley and everyone gets an aftermarket intake. As someone who is working with a fuel injection combo I'd like to not have to do all this programming stuff forget the $500 tuner or the $1200 aftermarket computer system, leave the $1500 laptop at home too. BY THE WAY LET EVERYONE HAVE A 350 SMALL BLOCK AND JUST CALL IT CRATEMOTOR. The guy with the 2 second tune-up should be easy to find in the pits too, he's towing his stocker with the Brinks Truck.

[Gary Smith]

Although not very detailed, there is a really good EFI article in the current Car Craft rag (Feb 2008 issue) on page 50. In reality, if you can wire a car, you can set up an EFI system. To support what Evan Smith pointed out earlier, there are advantages AND drawbacks to EFI systems. Same goes for carb engines. The trick, no matter what you run, is knowing how much fuel to apply based on what the engine is doing. THE ONLY ADVANTAGE OF AN EFI SYSTEM is it's ability to add or take away fuel throughout the RPM/power range based on engine load and oxygen readings. I run a simple speed density system without an O2 sensor (runs in open loop). The "tuneup" is just like selecting proper jetting and power valve choice on a Holley style carb. Matter of fact there are carbureted cars out there using sophisicated wide band O2 sensors that are tuned better than many EFI cars. Then there are those EFI cars that run better than many carb cars out there due to the amount of time and "homework" the driver/builder/tuner has put into the setup. So in the end, it's still all about rated horsepower. Induction properties will always be proportional to the limitations of the intake system, whether carbureted or EFI. Simply put, it all comes down to combination choice.

[Billy Pires]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Fuel injected cars (SOME of them anyway) will have an advantage, at least to begin with. The way to fix that would be to force them to trigger a review with the AHFS.

the LT1s just got hit with 5 HP (336 to 341) and we were at 325 when we were kicked out of the traditional stocker classes and given our own classes because of the bitches. So dont say "the AHFS needs to do it's job", i think it's working out just fine. And DONT tell me the 396's havn't made any more HP than they did when we were given our own FI classes. Since Top Stock became popular in D1, i've seen some really fast runs out of carburated cars, including mopars and fords.. not just 396's. Do any of you monkey's even race against LT1's or LS1's, or even the older TPI cars? Propbably not, especially that dope, GALE FORCE. haha nice bogus name you homo. The best part about this thread is the title, "domination of FI cars" when we havn't even raced together again in the traditional classes yet. Perhaps Gale Force is the second coming of Nostradomus?

[Rich Biebel]

Billy you forgot to mention that genius Speedracer.......he loves to make little comments that insinuate this or that and probably races a Matchbox car........but it don't even run the index.

[Speedracer]

I race a SUPERCHARGED MACH 5 that is not in the classification sheets at this time,but I am working on getting a letter that will allow me to race it in A/SA through P/SA depending on how I want.

[Rich Biebel]

Originally Posted by Speedracer

I race a SUPERCHARGED MACH 5 that is not in the classification sheets at this time,but I am working on getting a letter that will allow me to race it in A/SA through P/SA depending on how I want.

Call Carrol Shelby and he should be able to set you up with the right paperwork. P/SA might be a little heavy at 6000lbs though........

[Todd Hoven]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Call Carrol Shelby and he should be able to set you up with the right paperwork. P/SA might be a little heavy at 6000lbs though........

This Shelby bashing has to stop, I have heard stories about certan guys that knew people in GM that got all sorts of changes to cars that they were racing, PAPER UPDATES. IF YOU GUYS ARE SMART ENOUGH TO BUILD AN FE FORD, GO build one. How long is this crying going to go on for, and by some people WHO DON'T EVEN RACE STOCK. Enough is enough.



I don't race an FI car, but this is how I see it. The AFHS have been adjusting Combo's for a couple of years now. I remember in the 90's when the FI cars were real fast. I remember a Buick GN that ran H/SA and he used to run in the 10.80's BACK THEN. But today I don't see FI cars running away like that anymore, I think things have adjusted alot closer since that time. I don't know about SS but When a Tuneport 305 has as much power on it as a 283 with a 4GC thats kinda stupid and maybe the new AFHS will help balance that. Back to stock. Lets see what happens. In our sport not everybody is going to be happy, but they aren't supposed to be. I like the Idea that at Indy there might be 20+ cars in A B and C. More heads ups, more performance based racing. Thats a good thing. and if those cars runaway in the begining, in time they will be brought back in. The last thing, Racing an FI car has to be hard. The electronics are very complex ( I know because I'm an auto mechanic ) You have to be computer savy to tune and diag problems, when problems arrive you better be smart enough to fix em, and finally the cost is much higher to build ,race, and maintain them. I feel we need to let this play out and not jump to conclusions. IF THIS IS A GREAT CAN'T MISS THING, GO AND BUILD ONE.
Just my 2 cents

[fredjohnston]

Originally Posted by boster58

I have run the LS1 cars for 4 years now . And they have been fast . However I can't run with the Div 1 Top stock guys under the current HP ratings. I also don't think I can run with them in A, and we can't out run Hawk in B might have a chance in C so I don't see were the FI cars will dominate.

1969 camaro 396/ 375 aluminum heads NHRA rated 395 plus 20hp 1hp per cubic inch

2002 SS camaro 346/ 325 all aluminum NHRA rated 364 plus 40hp 1.05 hp per cubic inch

and 50 more cubic inches for the 396 That a big disadvantage for the Fi car. Just my .2cents

Bo kenney

Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean that someone else cant...

And if you like to crunch numbers....take a look at these..

67 shelby 428 automatic rated at 367 .85hp per cubic inch
67 shelby 428 manual rated at 358 .83hp per cubic inch