Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue SBC - Page 2

Matt S · 03-14-2016, 07:24 AM

I had the same concerns when I primed my Little M for the first time after it was built. It took MINUTES of spinning the drill, and rotating the motor 90 degrees, but eventually, I got oil from all 16 rockers.

Mike Taylor 3601 · 03-14-2016, 08:34 AM

I would say cut lifters,just takes small groove,I use 1/8 die grinder or a thin cut off wheel,you just need a few thousands deep from oil band to oil hole,another thing to look at if you have small base circle cam is to make sure oil band is lined up with oil galley,if band is below oil galley only time it can oil is when lifter up on lift,if that is the case you can cut grooves or cut chamfer on oil band so it matches up to oil galley when lifter is on base circle.
SBC should oil all rockers without having to rotate engine.
Any mods you do,do carefully doesn't take much to go from no oil to flood.
Mike Taylor 3601

pmrphil · 03-14-2016, 08:58 AM

Have a little patience - it always takes longer than 30 seconds to prime an SBC - think of the volume of oil to fill all the passages, lifters, and pushrods. The only oil to go up the pushrods has to come AROUND the lifter, it may take a while. Prime on.

Ed Wright · 03-14-2016, 09:25 AM

I cut my intake lifters like Mike mentioned, to add oil up those pushrods. I was burning ends off some intake pushrods, at the rockers. Those tiny grooves stopped that.

V M Kauffman · 03-14-2016, 12:23 PM

From Maskins mouth! the lifters need to be grooved to the band. Then use or don't use the restriction capabilities provided in the block. In the case of solid or solid roller lifters .075 re-stricter down to .060. Don't restrict oil to hydraulics as they need oil to work.
Maskin

joespanova · 03-14-2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V M Kauffman

From Maskins mouth! the lifters need to be grooved to the band. Then use or don't use the restriction capabilities provided in the block. In the case of solid or solid roller lifters .075 re-stricter down to .060. Don't restrict oil to hydraulics as they need oil to work.
Maskin

WELL THATS REALLY FUNNY......in light of the fact that I called Dart this AM and the tech guy said not ness..........so which is it?

carl hinkson · 03-14-2016, 08:12 PM

I asked you a few questions earlier but no response and my crystal ball not working !!!!

If thats a Dart Little-M with billet caps and if this is a wet sump application the rear galley holes need to be plugged and the front galley holes need no plug or restrictors for this block to be a true priority oiling. The Little-M with nodular caps galleys are machined different.

Lifter bore clearance is real critical when it comes to oiling push rods and rockers.

Number one there is noooooo standard when it comes to roller lifters on sizing. Comp, Crower and ISKY run up to .0015 smaller then OEM lifters and a Morel lifters are made to OEM spec rather its an .842,.875,.904 roller lifter.

Its amazing how many guys are clueless when it comes to lifter bore clearance LOL. And there are alot of shops that can't measure a lifter bore or even hone one to size !!!

When it comes to building a performance engine EVERYTHING has to be checked to get the best results.

If the lifter bore clearance is to tight oil will be restricted and will burn up push rods and there is a good chance of sticking a lifter in the bore. If its to loose the top end is flooded with oil.

Lifter bore clearance should be .0014 to .0019 if your in that parameter you should be fine.

I machine alot of Dart blocks and I don't let one out of the shop with out fitting lifters. If you have the proper clearance you should be getting the correct amount of oil to the rockers. I use a lot of Morel lifters and most of the time the lifter bores do need honing to get to the correct size.

My circle track engines I do groove the lifters on the drivers side and it takes a very small groove as its easy to over oil with to big of groove.

Here is a video on lifter bore clearance and bleed off between brands of lifters.

One other area I have seen a problem is using cam bearings with 3 holes no matter how you clock the cam bearing there is one cam bearing per journal with one hole in the 10:00 to 2:00 area which causes a severe bleed off. Prim your engine with the intake off and as see how much bleed of there is. Now have 220 degree oil now the problem is even worse.

joespanova · 03-14-2016, 08:32 PM

Carl.........if you look real close at the start of the thread you'll see :
"Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue "
The pipe plugs that are required are installed , correctly.
I did NOT check lifter bore clearance . I put my faith in Dart quality.
Blind Faith , call it what you will.........its done. I cannot "un ring the bell".

After trying again today I was able to get oil out of the rockers..............priming , with a faster 110 volt drill.

carl hinkson · 03-14-2016, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joespanova

Carl.........if you look real close at the start of the thread you'll see :
"Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue "
The pipe plugs that are required are installed , correctly.
I did NOT check lifter bore clearance . I put my faith in Dart quality.
Blind Faith , call it what you will.........its done. I cannot "un ring the bell".

After trying again today I was able to get oil out of the rockers..............priming , with a faster 110 volt drill.

Sorry I missed that.

Its not Dart you have to really worry about. If Dart did not have the lifters its hard to say what your clearances are as roller lifters are all over the map and really need to be checked for clearance before assembly.

Almost sounds like the clearance is to tight as oiling comes from lifter bore clearance, To tight very little oil to loose to much oil.

What lifters are you using ??

I would never let a block out the door with out checking lifter bore clearance as I get alot of calls about lifter bore issues and clearance issues.

joespanova · 03-15-2016, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl hinkson

What lifters are you using ??

I would never let a block out the door with out checking lifter bore clearance as I get alot of calls about lifter bore issues and clearance issues.

COMP 871 + .300 because they do the least damage to my wallet and the cup to axle c/l was the same as my std. Comp rollers from my previous Gen 1 block ( think pushrods here ), the Dart block req'd a +.300 lifter since the lifter bores are taller , ( .900 base circle cam).

03-14-2016, 07:24 AM	#11
Matt S Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 97 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue SBC I had the same concerns when I primed my Little M for the first time after it was built. It took MINUTES of spinning the drill, and rotating the motor 90 degrees, but eventually, I got oil from all 16 rockers.

03-14-2016, 08:34 AM	#12
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,303 Likes: 198 Liked 116 Times in 48 Posts	Re: Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue SBC I would say cut lifters,just takes small groove,I use 1/8 die grinder or a thin cut off wheel,you just need a few thousands deep from oil band to oil hole,another thing to look at if you have small base circle cam is to make sure oil band is lined up with oil galley,if band is below oil galley only time it can oil is when lifter up on lift,if that is the case you can cut grooves or cut chamfer on oil band so it matches up to oil galley when lifter is on base circle. SBC should oil all rockers without having to rotate engine. Any mods you do,do carefully doesn't take much to go from no oil to flood. Mike Taylor 3601

03-14-2016, 08:58 AM	#13
pmrphil Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: CT Posts: 391 Likes: 1,273 Liked 258 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue SBC Have a little patience - it always takes longer than 30 seconds to prime an SBC - think of the volume of oil to fill all the passages, lifters, and pushrods. The only oil to go up the pushrods has to come AROUND the lifter, it may take a while. Prime on. __________________ Phil Molski PMR Performance S/C 1623

03-14-2016, 09:25 AM	#14
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 389 Times in 168 Posts	Re: Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue SBC I cut my intake lifters like Mike mentioned, to add oil up those pushrods. I was burning ends off some intake pushrods, at the rockers. Those tiny grooves stopped that. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

03-14-2016, 12:23 PM	#15
V M Kauffman Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Greentown, IN Posts: 113 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue SBC From Maskins mouth! the lifters need to be grooved to the band. Then use or don't use the restriction capabilities provided in the block. In the case of solid or solid roller lifters .075 re-stricter down to .060. Don't restrict oil to hydraulics as they need oil to work. Maskin

03-14-2016, 08:12 PM	#17
carl hinkson Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NORTHEAST Posts: 287 Likes: 1 Liked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue SBC I asked you a few questions earlier but no response and my crystal ball not working !!!! If thats a Dart Little-M with billet caps and if this is a wet sump application the rear galley holes need to be plugged and the front galley holes need no plug or restrictors for this block to be a true priority oiling. The Little-M with nodular caps galleys are machined different. Lifter bore clearance is real critical when it comes to oiling push rods and rockers. Number one there is noooooo standard when it comes to roller lifters on sizing. Comp, Crower and ISKY run up to .0015 smaller then OEM lifters and a Morel lifters are made to OEM spec rather its an .842,.875,.904 roller lifter. Its amazing how many guys are clueless when it comes to lifter bore clearance LOL. And there are alot of shops that can't measure a lifter bore or even hone one to size !!! When it comes to building a performance engine EVERYTHING has to be checked to get the best results. If the lifter bore clearance is to tight oil will be restricted and will burn up push rods and there is a good chance of sticking a lifter in the bore. If its to loose the top end is flooded with oil. Lifter bore clearance should be .0014 to .0019 if your in that parameter you should be fine. I machine alot of Dart blocks and I don't let one out of the shop with out fitting lifters. If you have the proper clearance you should be getting the correct amount of oil to the rockers. I use a lot of Morel lifters and most of the time the lifter bores do need honing to get to the correct size. My circle track engines I do groove the lifters on the drivers side and it takes a very small groove as its easy to over oil with to big of groove. Here is a video on lifter bore clearance and bleed off between brands of lifters. One other area I have seen a problem is using cam bearings with 3 holes no matter how you clock the cam bearing there is one cam bearing per journal with one hole in the 10:00 to 2:00 area which causes a severe bleed off. Prim your engine with the intake off and as see how much bleed of there is. Now have 220 degree oil now the problem is even worse.

03-14-2016, 08:32 PM	#18
joespanova Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ga. Posts: 521 Likes: 7 Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Re: SBC Carl.........if you look real close at the start of the thread you'll see : "Dart Little M sportsman top end oiling issue " The pipe plugs that are required are installed , correctly. I did NOT check lifter bore clearance . I put my faith in Dart quality. Blind Faith , call it what you will.........its done. I cannot "un ring the bell". After trying again today I was able to get oil out of the rockers..............priming , with a faster 110 volt drill.