Time to Revisit the Super Times? - Page 3

Michael Pliska · 12-08-2011, 08:32 PM

Well said Jason and Bill. I've brought up the same thing, and been thoroughly chastised for having the audacity to question the status quo.

As far as whether the .90 classes have ever drawn a crowd, here is a late round at the 1988 Seattle national:

I have another photo somewhere taken by someone in the stands in this picture, and you can see the larger stands on the other side of the track are completely packed. Is the lack of fans only because of the timed throttle stops? Probably not, but it sure doesn't help. You guys keep bringing up payouts. As I learned in the small outlaw tracks in the South (where the weekly payouts rival an LODRS win), the key to higher payouts is to have something the spectators want to see. In those small towns in the South, even bracket racing was fun to watch. Maybe we should be thinking of something that will draw them back to the stands.

Jeff Beckman · 12-08-2011, 10:54 PM

I am curious, other than adding a 7.900 class etc, what Ideas or what would all of you do or change? How would you reinvent drag racing? What fresh new stand filling thoughts does anyone have? I am not trying to stir the pot here. I agree in the days gone by the stands were full, people were easier to entertain, thier choises were less, but now, we do need a future. So what is it?

SuperCompDiv3 · 12-09-2011, 01:01 AM

All good points but the bottom line is there is nothing wrong with the system.

Too many racers go by the saying: If it isn't broken, then fix it until it is.

So many things are more important right now.

Rollins_2241 · 12-09-2011, 09:11 AM

Flame suit on.

It's time to phase out the throttle stops - besides there are better ways to do it now that don't sacrifice as much accuracy and don't have the "spectator problem" of "broken" cars.

Here's my new slate. Tell them it's coming 1/1/2013.

Outlaw Super Comp - 7.60 index, dragsters OK, nitrous OK, delay OK, no SLE or stops, .4 pro tree (not .370). Older slower cars can step up with an add-on nitrous system, fast current cars can make the break or slow it down a bit, safety rules don't require the Advanced ET stuff.

Outlaw Super Gas - 8.60 index, left steer, nitrous OK, delay OK, no SLE/stops, .4 pro tree. Same deal for the current crop from fast S/G cars to low 9-second bracket cars wanting to give it a try.

Outlaw Super Street - 10.00 index, doors and a roof, nitrous OK, no delay, no stops, .4 pro tree. Same rules as Unleashed and Div. 2 10.00 index.

11.00 and 12.00 index just like Unleashed/Div. 2, just as they are now, entry-level classes for no-box no-stop racers on a .5 pro tree.

Rollins_2241 · 12-09-2011, 09:17 AM

"Plenty of guys in the .90 classes show up at each Div race"

Not true anymore. Div. 2 had 90-100 cars in S/C four years ago, now they are lucky to get 60. S/G had 70-80, now around 50. S/ST had 60-70, now around 35-45. And they rarely fill quota at most Nationals - Pomona, Gainesville, Norwalk, and Englishtown the exceptions.

Plus, at bottom the money lubricating drag racing, like every other sport, comes from TV. That's what sponsors sign up for, and it trickles down the line to racers running a sticker and getting a higher purse or contingency. Super class racing looks retarded on TV, even though the trap speeds are high. Two 12.0 cars side by side "look fast" on TV - watch the Unleashed footage, then watch the Super class finals from a Lucas Oil show, and see what I mean.

Chris Williams · 12-09-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollins_2241

It's time to phase out the throttle stops - besides there are better ways to do it now that don't sacrifice as much accuracy and don't have the "spectator problem" of "broken" cars.

Never understood the passionate hatred of throttle stops.

Maybe I'm stupid, but help me understand the "better ways to do it now"?

Chris Williams · 12-09-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollins_2241

The money lubricating drag racing, like every other sport, comes from TV.

If that's the case, the sport would've died a generation ago. The TV ratings for drag racing have never approached those of even an unranked pairing in NCAA football. That's why NHRA has to pay to produce and broadcast it...

The gate (front and back door) and concessions dollars have always been the money in drag racing. That, and the spend of the participants, on parts and consumables.

Maverick · 12-09-2011, 02:09 PM

I always liked the 1/4 mile length for racing. But some of the pros are only going 1000 feet for the race. If you want to change the Index from 9.90 to 9.0, then you might want to consider racing the Super classes to 1000 feet and then change the index to a even number. I think it would definitely make people be on the throttle control for less time. It would lower the top speed, and might make more sense. And the track prep would be the same for the fast pros, as well as for the sportsman. I like racing the 1/4 mile. But I expected when some of the pros went to 1000 feet, that the super classes would follow suit after a little time. Super gas might be 8.0 and super comp 7.0. Just an idea.

Rollins_2241 · 12-09-2011, 03:38 PM

Since I've run one since 2005, I don't think "passionate hatred" applies. It's just a fact that they are an obstacle to spectators, especially on TV, and therefore the "story" that attracts investor and sponsor dollars.

The better ways to hit an index include programmable digital ignitions, nitrous controllers, and similar devices. They provide the same tunability without the funny looking picture.

As long as the front and back gate is the zero-sum game in the economics of drag racing, it will be stagnant. Every major advancement in the economics has come through broader marketing, usually dependent on sponsor dollars, which are in turn directly dependent on exposure, which brings us to TV.

CBS · 12-09-2011, 04:22 PM

Michael....when you pull out from under the tower in the late rounds in the super classes....the fans are there for the fuel cars.....because they are right behind you....I don't believe anything has changed....

and don't forget when you speed up the indexes...you put the hurt on the low buck guys....and you increase speeds to who knows what.....right now the speeds are self governing.....as its difficult to make a 190 mile an hour car good on the stop....

Rock

12-08-2011, 08:32 PM	#21
Michael Pliska Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Happy Valley, OR Posts: 260 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? Well said Jason and Bill. I've brought up the same thing, and been thoroughly chastised for having the audacity to question the status quo. As far as whether the .90 classes have ever drawn a crowd, here is a late round at the 1988 Seattle national: I have another photo somewhere taken by someone in the stands in this picture, and you can see the larger stands on the other side of the track are completely packed. Is the lack of fans only because of the timed throttle stops? Probably not, but it sure doesn't help. You guys keep bringing up payouts. As I learned in the small outlaw tracks in the South (where the weekly payouts rival an LODRS win), the key to higher payouts is to have something the spectators want to see. In those small towns in the South, even bracket racing was fun to watch. Maybe we should be thinking of something that will draw them back to the stands. __________________ Michael Pliska 643 S/G

12-08-2011, 10:54 PM	#22
Jeff Beckman Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 308 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? I am curious, other than adding a 7.900 class etc, what Ideas or what would all of you do or change? How would you reinvent drag racing? What fresh new stand filling thoughts does anyone have? I am not trying to stir the pot here. I agree in the days gone by the stands were full, people were easier to entertain, thier choises were less, but now, we do need a future. So what is it? __________________ Jeff Beckman 318J ET, SG 318T SC

12-09-2011, 01:01 AM	#23
SuperCompDiv3 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 29 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? All good points but the bottom line is there is nothing wrong with the system. Too many racers go by the saying: If it isn't broken, then fix it until it is. So many things are more important right now.

12-09-2011, 09:11 AM	#24
Rollins_2241 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 170 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? Flame suit on. It's time to phase out the throttle stops - besides there are better ways to do it now that don't sacrifice as much accuracy and don't have the "spectator problem" of "broken" cars. Here's my new slate. Tell them it's coming 1/1/2013. Outlaw Super Comp - 7.60 index, dragsters OK, nitrous OK, delay OK, no SLE or stops, .4 pro tree (not .370). Older slower cars can step up with an add-on nitrous system, fast current cars can make the break or slow it down a bit, safety rules don't require the Advanced ET stuff. Outlaw Super Gas - 8.60 index, left steer, nitrous OK, delay OK, no SLE/stops, .4 pro tree. Same deal for the current crop from fast S/G cars to low 9-second bracket cars wanting to give it a try. Outlaw Super Street - 10.00 index, doors and a roof, nitrous OK, no delay, no stops, .4 pro tree. Same rules as Unleashed and Div. 2 10.00 index. 11.00 and 12.00 index just like Unleashed/Div. 2, just as they are now, entry-level classes for no-box no-stop racers on a .5 pro tree.

12-09-2011, 09:17 AM	#25
Rollins_2241 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 170 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? "Plenty of guys in the .90 classes show up at each Div race" Not true anymore. Div. 2 had 90-100 cars in S/C four years ago, now they are lucky to get 60. S/G had 70-80, now around 50. S/ST had 60-70, now around 35-45. And they rarely fill quota at most Nationals - Pomona, Gainesville, Norwalk, and Englishtown the exceptions. Plus, at bottom the money lubricating drag racing, like every other sport, comes from TV. That's what sponsors sign up for, and it trickles down the line to racers running a sticker and getting a higher purse or contingency. Super class racing looks retarded on TV, even though the trap speeds are high. Two 12.0 cars side by side "look fast" on TV - watch the Unleashed footage, then watch the Super class finals from a Lucas Oil show, and see what I mean.

12-09-2011, 02:09 PM	#28
Maverick Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 291 Likes: 2 Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? I always liked the 1/4 mile length for racing. But some of the pros are only going 1000 feet for the race. If you want to change the Index from 9.90 to 9.0, then you might want to consider racing the Super classes to 1000 feet and then change the index to a even number. I think it would definitely make people be on the throttle control for less time. It would lower the top speed, and might make more sense. And the track prep would be the same for the fast pros, as well as for the sportsman. I like racing the 1/4 mile. But I expected when some of the pros went to 1000 feet, that the super classes would follow suit after a little time. Super gas might be 8.0 and super comp 7.0. Just an idea.

12-09-2011, 03:38 PM	#29
Rollins_2241 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 170 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? Since I've run one since 2005, I don't think "passionate hatred" applies. It's just a fact that they are an obstacle to spectators, especially on TV, and therefore the "story" that attracts investor and sponsor dollars. The better ways to hit an index include programmable digital ignitions, nitrous controllers, and similar devices. They provide the same tunability without the funny looking picture. As long as the front and back gate is the zero-sum game in the economics of drag racing, it will be stagnant. Every major advancement in the economics has come through broader marketing, usually dependent on sponsor dollars, which are in turn directly dependent on exposure, which brings us to TV.

12-09-2011, 04:22 PM	#30
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Time to Revisit the Super Times? Michael....when you pull out from under the tower in the late rounds in the super classes....the fans are there for the fuel cars.....because they are right behind you....I don't believe anything has changed.... and don't forget when you speed up the indexes...you put the hurt on the low buck guys....and you increase speeds to who knows what.....right now the speeds are self governing.....as its difficult to make a 190 mile an hour car good on the stop.... Rock Attached Thumbnails Last edited by CBS; 12-09-2011 at 04:29 PM.