IHRA tournament of Champions - Page 2

THE LEGEND · 10-28-2009, 08:31 PM

Michael good idea.
I would love to meet somewhere to run this off, but we need to put it behind us.
What if they split the money between those who were there. Then we show up The Thursday before the first rest of 2010 and race for the Gold Card and the #1. I know everyone could'nt make it back but at least we could shut the door on it.

One more thing I get tired of everyone refering to this years champion not being a real champion or a deserving one. The way I look at it. Theses are the rules and if you can beat the top 30 racers "SHOOTOUT STYLE" Then I think you've earned it.
Chip Johnson

Nova4301 · 10-29-2009, 06:14 AM

Sid, I hate to hear you had truck problems on the way home on top of what we all put up with at the track. I really don't know what the decision should be on how to solve this, but I believe someone brought up the idea of laying out a few options and the TOC qualifiers voting on it...at least it would be a majority decision then.

I, as many others, thought the TOC race was a good idea (finally, you didn't get placed lower in points on a season where you never even raced the guys ahead of you in points), however in the future I believe that the backup needs to be the old points system. If they can't get the TOC race off, then they needed to have posted the world championship points throughout the entire year as a backup and use it under these circumstances.

2 things that shouldn't happen out of this though are: 1) the people who didn't show up really should not get anything out of the deal (not another chance to go to a reschedule nor divided up money if that happens and if they decide somehow points-wise then the people that did show up should get some bonus points at least). My resoning behind that one is that the TOC should have been decided last weekend and the people who didn't show obviously gave up their chance. 2) again a reschedule absolutely cannot go back to rockingham (to be fair it really can't be on the east coast at all)

Sorry, just noticed that I said alot of the same things that Michael said...so I guess I concur.

danny waters sr · 10-29-2009, 06:28 AM

Maybe they should break this up in regions and let all that are closest to each region run their deal til they get a winner in that region and do so in all regions . this would be kinda like the summit super series format. when this is done and a winner is established then let those winners go to the most central location for the final finals. this would help on all ot the toc qualifiers at least a less expensive alternative , except for the ones that end up in the final finals. Just a thought. Also do not include the ones that did not show up at rockingham.Less travel and less expense for all involved.

THE LEGEND · 10-29-2009, 07:32 AM

Tim,
Why are you so adamant about not coming back to the east cost. Do the math. I'll be willing to bet less than 10% there were west of the Mississippi, and 80% were div 1,2,and 9 cars.
Chip

Brandon Peterson · 10-29-2009, 07:53 AM

i agree with Danny, i thought of the same thing you run all the cars within the div and surronding that are close at one track have a winner then pick a natl that everyone could make it too and then you would have a smaller shootout maybe 2 or 3 rounds and its over with.

buzzinhalfdozen · 10-29-2009, 08:03 AM

Based on the fact that they used reaction times in S/SS for qualifying ladder would it be reasonable to assume they would use this type of info to determine the results? I really didn't understand using that method for the S/SS why not just use the most under index? Oh I forgot in IHRA performance no longer matters.Joe

Michael Lyons · 10-29-2009, 08:06 AM

Thanks for making my point so clear Chip. Thats why the TOC isn't any fairer than any of the other ways to win a championship. It obviously favors the racers that live closest to the track that they hold it at. Which also makes it more lucrative for someone who only had to drive 100 miles to the race as opposed to those who may have drove close to a thousand. The extra days of travel are also lost wages days so basically it costs someone from say Texas nearly $2000 dollars to be able to travel to NC to race for a possible $10000, whereas someone from NC it may only cost $100. The IHRA has done a great job of spreading national events around with the additional sportsnationals at all the various tracks. It would have been quite fair using the old points system for almost anyone to challenge for the world championship this year. The TOC only drove up the costs, brutally to those who would have finished 3rd thru 10th in national points under the old system. I was always taught that loyalty was rewarded in the end, but the TOC sticks it to the loyal racers. Sorry theres only 40 of them supposedly, I think theres more than 40.. The car counts are down because of the economy and the rising costs of racing vs the dramatically reduced prize moneys available. I doubt there is any one thing that will fix this, it will either comeback in some time or we are nearing the end. I don't completely fault anyone for trying though. And I do think they had to have some kind of a paying customer race at Rockingham, they probably should have had a lil different schedule for it. Course hindsite is always 20/20 ain't it?

Beth Denysenko · 10-29-2009, 08:21 AM

Alex and I had 900 miles to discuss this on the way home and talk about "what could have been." I'm sure he will add his ideas later, but for now I want to comment on people who say those who were in the TOC shouldn't have been in the Sportsnationals or was only in it for the dough.

We have never been to Rockingham. We wanted to get a couple of extra hits on the track so we left early enough to enter. I would assume so did most of TOC competitors. And the money Alex won helped offset the travel expenses. Sorry for those in the SS All Stars who didn't get to start their race due to Alex still in the SN.

IHRA had a good idea there were a LOT of cars entered in the SN by Wed. night. They could have easily announced to everyone at the track Wed. night that the SN would start at 9am instead of noon. Give everyone a run card for two runs, those who showed up for a 12 pm start and only got one run would get a clean up. But they didn't do that. They didn't even start the SN until after 1:30 - we started an hour and a half late for what? Track prep. That should have been done on Wed. We should have been ready to run at 8 am Thursday. Mismanagement. More later . . . .

Adger Smith · 10-29-2009, 08:34 AM

Michael,
Great idea. It makes sense, but I'm pretty sure what makes money for Field is being discussed rather than what makes sense for the racers. I thought the TOC was a good idea. I like the format. I had even considered going to Rockingham and racing the Sports Nationals race. I had 3 customers in the TOC and quite a few friends that were going to be there. I figured it would be a big party and good time. If Mike Baker had done away with the 1.40 under hit, as I ask, when attempting a record it would have been even more tempting to go. Issues with $$ and my Dad's health kept me away. It seems by all the posts that it was a real money pit and miserable time for most racers. (party never got started??)Glad I stayed home. Going 1100 miles one way is tough on the pocketbook at today's prices. I hope it works out for the best and they decide to try it one more year. To my friends and customers that won their way in I say: Good Work and Congratulations. Hope you make it in next year.

THE LEGEND · 10-29-2009, 10:11 AM

Michael,
I see your point about travel. I live 50 miles away. Answer this where would a suitable central location be.
Bottom line 80% of the racers live less than 300 miles from the Rock and I'll bet 60% are less than 200 miles away.
Steve Earwood said it best several years ago "Nobody wins on a rainout".
Chip

10-28-2009, 08:31 PM	#11
THE LEGEND VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Fayetteville, n.c. Posts: 1,411 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Michael good idea. I would love to meet somewhere to run this off, but we need to put it behind us. What if they split the money between those who were there. Then we show up The Thursday before the first rest of 2010 and race for the Gold Card and the #1. I know everyone could'nt make it back but at least we could shut the door on it. One more thing I get tired of everyone refering to this years champion not being a real champion or a deserving one. The way I look at it. Theses are the rules and if you can beat the top 30 racers "SHOOTOUT STYLE" Then I think you've earned it. Chip Johnson

10-29-2009, 06:14 AM	#12
Nova4301 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Moore, OK Posts: 54 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Sid, I hate to hear you had truck problems on the way home on top of what we all put up with at the track. I really don't know what the decision should be on how to solve this, but I believe someone brought up the idea of laying out a few options and the TOC qualifiers voting on it...at least it would be a majority decision then. I, as many others, thought the TOC race was a good idea (finally, you didn't get placed lower in points on a season where you never even raced the guys ahead of you in points), however in the future I believe that the backup needs to be the old points system. If they can't get the TOC race off, then they needed to have posted the world championship points throughout the entire year as a backup and use it under these circumstances. 2 things that shouldn't happen out of this though are: 1) the people who didn't show up really should not get anything out of the deal (not another chance to go to a reschedule nor divided up money if that happens and if they decide somehow points-wise then the people that did show up should get some bonus points at least). My resoning behind that one is that the TOC should have been decided last weekend and the people who didn't show obviously gave up their chance. 2) again a reschedule absolutely cannot go back to rockingham (to be fair it really can't be on the east coast at all) Sorry, just noticed that I said alot of the same things that Michael said...so I guess I concur. __________________ Tim Wilson HR/SST 4301 Last edited by Nova4301; 10-29-2009 at 06:30 AM. Reason: misread earlier post.

10-29-2009, 06:28 AM	#13
danny waters sr VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: lagrange,nc Posts: 2,224 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Maybe they should break this up in regions and let all that are closest to each region run their deal til they get a winner in that region and do so in all regions . this would be kinda like the summit super series format. when this is done and a winner is established then let those winners go to the most central location for the final finals. this would help on all ot the toc qualifiers at least a less expensive alternative , except for the ones that end up in the final finals. Just a thought. Also do not include the ones that did not show up at rockingham.Less travel and less expense for all involved. __________________ Danny Waters, Sr / 73 Duster "340"

10-29-2009, 07:32 AM	#14
THE LEGEND VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Fayetteville, n.c. Posts: 1,411 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Tim, Why are you so adamant about not coming back to the east cost. Do the math. I'll be willing to bet less than 10% there were west of the Mississippi, and 80% were div 1,2,and 9 cars. Chip

10-29-2009, 07:53 AM	#15
Brandon Peterson Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 436 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions i agree with Danny, i thought of the same thing you run all the cars within the div and surronding that are close at one track have a winner then pick a natl that everyone could make it too and then you would have a smaller shootout maybe 2 or 3 rounds and its over with.

10-29-2009, 08:03 AM	#16
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 985 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Based on the fact that they used reaction times in S/SS for qualifying ladder would it be reasonable to assume they would use this type of info to determine the results? I really didn't understand using that method for the S/SS why not just use the most under index? Oh I forgot in IHRA performance no longer matters.Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

10-29-2009, 08:06 AM	#17
Michael Lyons Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Garden City, MI Posts: 226 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Thanks for making my point so clear Chip. Thats why the TOC isn't any fairer than any of the other ways to win a championship. It obviously favors the racers that live closest to the track that they hold it at. Which also makes it more lucrative for someone who only had to drive 100 miles to the race as opposed to those who may have drove close to a thousand. The extra days of travel are also lost wages days so basically it costs someone from say Texas nearly $2000 dollars to be able to travel to NC to race for a possible $10000, whereas someone from NC it may only cost $100. The IHRA has done a great job of spreading national events around with the additional sportsnationals at all the various tracks. It would have been quite fair using the old points system for almost anyone to challenge for the world championship this year. The TOC only drove up the costs, brutally to those who would have finished 3rd thru 10th in national points under the old system. I was always taught that loyalty was rewarded in the end, but the TOC sticks it to the loyal racers. Sorry theres only 40 of them supposedly, I think theres more than 40.. The car counts are down because of the economy and the rising costs of racing vs the dramatically reduced prize moneys available. I doubt there is any one thing that will fix this, it will either comeback in some time or we are nearing the end. I don't completely fault anyone for trying though. And I do think they had to have some kind of a paying customer race at Rockingham, they probably should have had a lil different schedule for it. Course hindsite is always 20/20 ain't it?

10-29-2009, 08:21 AM	#18
Beth Denysenko Live Reporter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 426 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Alex and I had 900 miles to discuss this on the way home and talk about "what could have been." I'm sure he will add his ideas later, but for now I want to comment on people who say those who were in the TOC shouldn't have been in the Sportsnationals or was only in it for the dough. We have never been to Rockingham. We wanted to get a couple of extra hits on the track so we left early enough to enter. I would assume so did most of TOC competitors. And the money Alex won helped offset the travel expenses. Sorry for those in the SS All Stars who didn't get to start their race due to Alex still in the SN. IHRA had a good idea there were a LOT of cars entered in the SN by Wed. night. They could have easily announced to everyone at the track Wed. night that the SN would start at 9am instead of noon. Give everyone a run card for two runs, those who showed up for a 12 pm start and only got one run would get a clean up. But they didn't do that. They didn't even start the SN until after 1:30 - we started an hour and a half late for what? Track prep. That should have been done on Wed. We should have been ready to run at 8 am Thursday. Mismanagement. More later . . . . __________________ Beth Denysenko P/SA 330 www.moneymakerracing.net

10-29-2009, 08:34 AM	#19
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,348 Likes: 433 Liked 676 Times in 260 Posts	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Michael, Great idea. It makes sense, but I'm pretty sure what makes money for Field is being discussed rather than what makes sense for the racers. I thought the TOC was a good idea. I like the format. I had even considered going to Rockingham and racing the Sports Nationals race. I had 3 customers in the TOC and quite a few friends that were going to be there. I figured it would be a big party and good time. If Mike Baker had done away with the 1.40 under hit, as I ask, when attempting a record it would have been even more tempting to go. Issues with $$ and my Dad's health kept me away. It seems by all the posts that it was a real money pit and miserable time for most racers. (party never got started??)Glad I stayed home. Going 1100 miles one way is tough on the pocketbook at today's prices. I hope it works out for the best and they decide to try it one more year. To my friends and customers that won their way in I say: Good Work and Congratulations. Hope you make it in next year. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 10-30-2009 at 06:09 AM. Reason: sp

10-29-2009, 10:11 AM	#20
THE LEGEND VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Fayetteville, n.c. Posts: 1,411 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: IHRA tournament of Champions Michael, I see your point about travel. I live 50 miles away. Answer this where would a suitable central location be. Bottom line 80% of the racers live less than 300 miles from the Rock and I'll bet 60% are less than 200 miles away. Steve Earwood said it best several years ago "Nobody wins on a rainout". Chip