indy tech fiasco's

Jack McCarthy · 09-04-2007, 10:33 AM

once again the teardown process at indy turns into a fiasco. 3 sets of heads with 4 angle seats are allowed in, heads with less cc's than stated in guide are passed, and motor's with crossbred parts and wrong specifications are passed... and why ??? because the national powers to be will not ALLOW THE TECHMEN TO DO THIER JOB.

wesley will no longer attend, and travis is made a fool of every year (he has to attend it is his division) and the beat goes on... every year we get new "policy" aprroved because if this bull****. no damn wonder NHRA has openings for "qualified" techmen... who would want to be abused like this ...bad enough when racers are the problem, but when your boss wont let you enforce the rule book why even bother (which i migh add seems to be the feeling over last few years letting all this bull**** get out of hand)

you know NASCAR has NO PROBLEM enforcing thier rules, fining thier elite, confiscating parts on a FAIR LEVEL because no-one is above the rules... why cant NHRA get its **** together and allow the tech department to regain the RESPECT it deserves ???? right now its just one big JOKE !!!!

this is a divison 3 race and the division 3 tech department should be allowed to do thier job, period.
AND... a GOOD supervisor would be there only to support the division techmans decision, not override it !!!

jack mccarthy

FlyingW · 09-04-2007, 11:56 AM

MR.JACK,

If your going to run your mouth get your story right.............
I was at the 2005 Daytona 500 in the pits one of the teams, and Jeff Gordon went through post race inspection and his rear deck was to low.So he told NASCAR it was that way due to post race burn out and they allowed the car to pass WHY???????? Due to he puts fans in the stands..........

The U.S. Nationals maybe in at a divion 3 track but NHRA runs the show so my advice to you is if you love your tech guy's stay at the divisional level............

We race and have to realize that at the end of the day NHRA is the power to be and what they say goes.....
and you either say ok or WHINE about it.I have been bounced after fuel check at a natianal event with sunoco fuel that checked one week before at a divisional race and they checked it 3 times for me, and it was one of my divison tech guy's that check it and I asked him how this happened and he said NHRA rules say this is not right so I went and changed all my fuel to VP and wow it checked. So at the end of the day wheather it's division 1,2,3,4,5,6,or 7, tech guy's they still have to answer to NHRA and they do their job and it's our job to put on a great race for the fan's no matter what NHRA say's that we do not agree with. so open your car door ,get in,buckel up, shut up and go race ....................dont allow NHRA power's to be to ruin your race weekend. As my dad say's "race your race with the rule's NHRA say you have to run or leave the car at home".

Jeremy Waibel
K&N 69 Camaro
NHRA B/SA 2231

Dave Goob Cook · 09-04-2007, 01:58 PM

Hmmm, if you were not busy preparing and racing your own car, it's no wonder that you had plenty of time to sit in the tech barn and watch the proceedings

, and no wonder that you are whining so much......you must be pretty damn important for the NHRA to let you observe all the teardowns.
I don't see any mystery here, sounds like sour grapes from someone with too much time on their hands. (not racing)
Maybe you should give up racing for an exciting career in NHRA tech.

I hear the same shyt from losers at the bracket tracks, who should be working on their own programs, to improve their own results.

Mark Lewis · 09-04-2007, 02:20 PM

Could the 4 angle valve jobs you are talking about been on aluminum heads?

Larry Hill · 09-04-2007, 02:21 PM

Jack was there racing and what he observed was the truth. Mr. Flying W was NOT there (at least he was not racing) and does not really know what happened. We have very competent tech men, but when they are not allowed to do their job by the head of the tech dept., their hands are tied.
Patsy

Michael Beard · 09-04-2007, 02:22 PM

Goob, actually Jack has quite valid points. As for having plenty of time to check out the barn, National events have more "hurry up and wait" time than the Bracket Finals. I'm sure that's even more the case at Indy.

When are you going class racing, brotha? Come out and join the party, then you can comment from experience.

It ain't whining if you bring a valid and logical debate to the table.

FlyingW · 09-04-2007, 02:31 PM

I never said anything about not having competant officials... What I said was that at the end of the day, the ruling of the NHRA is what stands no matter what the opinion is of the local divisional tech officals.

You are correct in saying that I was not there, due to recovering illness however you are incorrect to say that I do not know what was going on in the particular instance with Doug Patrick, I was on the phone with him while it was taking place.

My whole point is that NHRA tech officials govern their races the way they see fit, and divisional tech officials govern theirs how they see fit and if you are racing at a NHRA governed event and the rules dont happen to go your way, dont use the excuse that it is a division track and they need to be able to run it... this stops the "good ole boys" in every division. Just accept it and move on...

Jeremy Waibel
69 Camaro B/SA 2231

Bruce Noland · 09-04-2007, 02:38 PM

Guys,

I have to side with ol' Capt Jack on this one. Too many times we have seen the rules twisted by the higher-ups at nhra races. The tech guys are trying to do their jobs, and admittedly they do not have a perfect record, but 4 angle valve jobs and cross breeding parts are not hard calls to make. It is nhra's job to properly enforce it's own rules - there is no question about that.

Tear down at Indy is unique. Every Class racer on the grounds can hear a wrench hit the concrete floor in the barn or hear a guy cussing because he dropped a bolt in the grass on the tent side.

Too many people have become indoctrinated to the whims of nhra and it's the principal reason they get away with this unprofessional behavior. And that ain't whinning.! It's the damn truth!

FlyingW · 09-04-2007, 02:48 PM

I am not sure even why we are worried about every one else, because you should run your car, according to the rules set forth, and not worry about every one else.

I know when I go to National events and even divisional races, VERY few times have I had time to go down to the tech barn to be nosey and see what was going on ? Why you might ask ? That is because I am dealing with my sponsors and making sure that they are happy, and making sure that my car is running good, so that I can put on a great show for everyone there.

The only times I hanging out at the tech barn is when it is my car, or a team members car.

Why dont we all just worry about our own racing and what it will take to make our own cars #1 than making sure that you are crucifying the people that are put in the position to make the decisions that will NEVER please everyone.

Jeremy Waibel
B/SA 2231

Dwight Southerland · 09-04-2007, 03:18 PM

Jeremy -

You keep trying to smoke the issue into something it is not and something that is totally different than what Jack is saying. I agree with Jack that the fair and unbiased quality of tech decisions (whether at Divisional and National events) is something that is of utmost importance in this sport. The conduct of the officials should be irreproachable and there should not be any shadow of sidestepping the letter of the rules in their decisions. Any time that there are questions about the conduct of a tech person or crew or office, these questions need to be addressed and answered. That is not to say that every racer has the authority to be a judge or that every gripe has equal weight and importance. But, to assume that we pay no attention to the tech process or that the decisions handed down should be accepted without scrutiny will create an environment that allows corruption to sneak in too easily. Integrity in tech decisions in stock and super stock is a core value that must be fought for or else the categories will disappear.

09-04-2007, 11:56 AM	#2
FlyingW Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Frostproof, Fl. Posts: 450 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: indy tech fiasco's MR.JACK, If your going to run your mouth get your story right............. I was at the 2005 Daytona 500 in the pits one of the teams, and Jeff Gordon went through post race inspection and his rear deck was to low.So he told NASCAR it was that way due to post race burn out and they allowed the car to pass WHY???????? Due to he puts fans in the stands.......... The U.S. Nationals maybe in at a divion 3 track but NHRA runs the show so my advice to you is if you love your tech guy's stay at the divisional level............ We race and have to realize that at the end of the day NHRA is the power to be and what they say goes..... and you either say ok or WHINE about it.I have been bounced after fuel check at a natianal event with sunoco fuel that checked one week before at a divisional race and they checked it 3 times for me, and it was one of my divison tech guy's that check it and I asked him how this happened and he said NHRA rules say this is not right so I went and changed all my fuel to VP and wow it checked. So at the end of the day wheather it's division 1,2,3,4,5,6,or 7, tech guy's they still have to answer to NHRA and they do their job and it's our job to put on a great race for the fan's no matter what NHRA say's that we do not agree with. so open your car door ,get in,buckel up, shut up and go race ....................dont allow NHRA power's to be to ruin your race weekend. As my dad say's "race your race with the rule's NHRA say you have to run or leave the car at home". Jeremy Waibel K&N 69 Camaro NHRA B/SA 2231

09-04-2007, 01:58 PM	#3
Dave Goob Cook Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 422 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Hmmm, if you were not busy preparing and racing your own car, it's no wonder that you had plenty of time to sit in the tech barn and watch the proceedings, and no wonder that you are whining so much......you must be pretty damn important for the NHRA to let you observe all the teardowns. I don't see any mystery here, sounds like sour grapes from someone with too much time on their hands. (not racing) Maybe you should give up racing for an exciting career in NHRA tech. I hear the same shyt from losers at the bracket tracks, who should be working on their own programs, to improve their own results.

09-04-2007, 02:20 PM	#4
Mark Lewis Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 330 Likes: 55 Liked 184 Times in 37 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Could the 4 angle valve jobs you are talking about been on aluminum heads?

09-04-2007, 02:21 PM	#5
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,280 Likes: 1,637 Liked 9,456 Times in 1,957 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Jack was there racing and what he observed was the truth. Mr. Flying W was NOT there (at least he was not racing) and does not really know what happened. We have very competent tech men, but when they are not allowed to do their job by the head of the tech dept., their hands are tied. Patsy __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

09-04-2007, 02:22 PM	#6
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Goob, actually Jack has quite valid points. As for having plenty of time to check out the barn, National events have more "hurry up and wait" time than the Bracket Finals. I'm sure that's even more the case at Indy. When are you going class racing, brotha? Come out and join the party, then you can comment from experience. It ain't whining if you bring a valid and logical debate to the table. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-04-2007, 10:33 AM	#1
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,284 Likes: 22 Liked 352 Times in 92 Posts	indy tech fiasco's once again the teardown process at indy turns into a fiasco. 3 sets of heads with 4 angle seats are allowed in, heads with less cc's than stated in guide are passed, and motor's with crossbred parts and wrong specifications are passed... and why ??? because the national powers to be will not ALLOW THE TECHMEN TO DO THIER JOB. wesley will no longer attend, and travis is made a fool of every year (he has to attend it is his division) and the beat goes on... every year we get new "policy" aprroved because if this bull**. no damn wonder NHRA has openings for "qualified" techmen... who would want to be abused like this ...bad enough when racers are the problem, but when your boss wont let you enforce the rule book why even bother (which i migh add seems to be the feeling over last few years letting all this bull get out of hand) you know NASCAR has NO PROBLEM enforcing thier rules, fining thier elite, confiscating parts on a FAIR LEVEL because no-one is above the rules... why cant NHRA get its ** together and allow the tech department to regain the RESPECT it deserves ???? right now its just one big JOKE !!!! this is a divison 3 race and the division 3 tech department should be allowed to do thier job, period. AND... a GOOD supervisor would be there only to support the division techmans decision, not override it !!! jack mccarthy __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

09-04-2007, 02:31 PM	#7
FlyingW Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Frostproof, Fl. Posts: 450 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: indy tech fiasco's I never said anything about not having competant officials... What I said was that at the end of the day, the ruling of the NHRA is what stands no matter what the opinion is of the local divisional tech officals. You are correct in saying that I was not there, due to recovering illness however you are incorrect to say that I do not know what was going on in the particular instance with Doug Patrick, I was on the phone with him while it was taking place. My whole point is that NHRA tech officials govern their races the way they see fit, and divisional tech officials govern theirs how they see fit and if you are racing at a NHRA governed event and the rules dont happen to go your way, dont use the excuse that it is a division track and they need to be able to run it... this stops the "good ole boys" in every division. Just accept it and move on... Jeremy Waibel 69 Camaro B/SA 2231

09-04-2007, 02:38 PM	#8
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Guys, I have to side with ol' Capt Jack on this one. Too many times we have seen the rules twisted by the higher-ups at nhra races. The tech guys are trying to do their jobs, and admittedly they do not have a perfect record, but 4 angle valve jobs and cross breeding parts are not hard calls to make. It is nhra's job to properly enforce it's own rules - there is no question about that. Tear down at Indy is unique. Every Class racer on the grounds can hear a wrench hit the concrete floor in the barn or hear a guy cussing because he dropped a bolt in the grass on the tent side. Too many people have become indoctrinated to the whims of nhra and it's the principal reason they get away with this unprofessional behavior. And that ain't whinning.! It's the damn truth! __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

09-04-2007, 02:48 PM	#9
FlyingW Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Frostproof, Fl. Posts: 450 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: indy tech fiasco's I am not sure even why we are worried about every one else, because you should run your car, according to the rules set forth, and not worry about every one else. I know when I go to National events and even divisional races, VERY few times have I had time to go down to the tech barn to be nosey and see what was going on ? Why you might ask ? That is because I am dealing with my sponsors and making sure that they are happy, and making sure that my car is running good, so that I can put on a great show for everyone there. The only times I hanging out at the tech barn is when it is my car, or a team members car. Why dont we all just worry about our own racing and what it will take to make our own cars #1 than making sure that you are crucifying the people that are put in the position to make the decisions that will NEVER please everyone. Jeremy Waibel B/SA 2231

09-04-2007, 03:18 PM	#10
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 1,980 Likes: 53 Liked 724 Times in 177 Posts	Re: indy tech fiasco's Jeremy - You keep trying to smoke the issue into something it is not and something that is totally different than what Jack is saying. I agree with Jack that the fair and unbiased quality of tech decisions (whether at Divisional and National events) is something that is of utmost importance in this sport. The conduct of the officials should be irreproachable and there should not be any shadow of sidestepping the letter of the rules in their decisions. Any time that there are questions about the conduct of a tech person or crew or office, these questions need to be addressed and answered. That is not to say that every racer has the authority to be a judge or that every gripe has equal weight and importance. But, to assume that we pay no attention to the tech process or that the decisions handed down should be accepted without scrutiny will create an environment that allows corruption to sneak in too easily. Integrity in tech decisions in stock and super stock is a core value that must be fought for or else the categories will disappear.