Timing retarding 2* after installing crank trigger

colormebad · 04-18-2016, 02:12 PM

I'm running a 7AL-3 Black Ignition' Just installed a sbf used crank trigger..... Set the sensor with one of the magnets, locked on 30* and turned the dist to #1 ... Fired right up. Looks rock solid till I rev the engine, then it retards 2 degrees.... I have tried everything with no luck... The sensor wires match the wires going to the 7AL-3 , but reversed them and timing advanced 20 * so switched back... Crank trigger wheel is on right side' with arrow on outside turning clockwise... Sensor is about 50 airgap from trigger wheel..
Things I tried below...
Tried another but used sensor
Tried another crank trigger wheel
Tried a used digital 7
Just tried a new out of the box digital 7
Have 0 chips in retards not using and ran gnds also
Ran gnds from aluminum heads to frame
Using flaming river self powered regular timing light ' but tried 3 others
Put light on # 6 cyl and still same thing
Even though I have heavy gnd's and hot at rear and front of car, ran 10 gauge + & - from 7AL3 to batt
Intsalled a new I had laying around , shielded cable from sensor to ign box...
Timing was off 2* on balancer when I first built the motor' went back yesterday with a dial indicator in #1 cyl and made sure it was still the same...
MSD has went out of their way trying to help me but said they didn't know what else to try..
Anyone here ever have this problem ?? thanks

Dick Butler · 04-19-2016, 05:05 PM

"Set with one magnet"? Did you center it or use leading edge? On magnet old Moroso that was method. Putting at starting pt w loose timing belt? Did you use other style timing light too?

colormebad · 04-19-2016, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

"Set with one magnet"? Did you center it or use leading edge? On magnet old Moroso that was method. Putting at starting pt w loose timing belt? Did you use other style timing light too?

I centered it with one of the magnets and locked it down on 30*
Then pointed the rotor toward #1
I did have to moved the sensor a few times to get it dead on 30....
Then when u go back and check it, the censor and magnet is not centered with each other.... MSD said that was normal.... When it fires its dead on 30* still as can be till you rev it up and then it retards 2*

colormebad · 06-03-2016, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

"Set with one magnet"? Did you center it or use leading edge? On magnet old Moroso that was method. Putting at starting pt w loose timing belt? Did you use other style timing light too?

Just shot a video clip, you can see what its doing...Starts retarding around the 12 sec mark a few times when I rev it

FED 387 · 06-03-2016, 08:56 PM

you using a timing chain or a gear drive? FED 387

colormebad · 06-03-2016, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FED 387

you using a timing chain or a gear drive? FED 387

Chain

1968 SS · 06-06-2016, 04:49 PM

Normal operation of MSD 7AL-3 ignition box to retard timming up to 4*
Set timming at 3,000 RPM as per MSD instructions.

Brian
.

FED 387 · 06-09-2016, 12:30 PM

Most chain driven cams will retard when you rev the engine and then let the RPM's come back down its the play/slack in the chain doing it---just like what yours is doing--- suggestion---- rev the engine to say 4000 RPM -5000 RPM hold the rpm steady then hold the timing light on the balancer mark move your distributor or pick up on the crank trigger whatever you do to set the timing to the desired timing -- tighten down your pick up or distributor---then recheck the timing again at say 4000 see if it stays where you set it or if it moves- revving and then letting the RPM go up and down allows the chain to advance and retard the timing as the chain loosens and tightens--- make sense??? FED 387

pmrphil · 06-09-2016, 12:49 PM

The timing chain has nothing to do with timing when using a crank trigger, only affects the position of the rotor. I just adjusted for it so it was correct at RPM. Sure does make you wonder, huh?

colormebad · 06-09-2016, 01:22 PM

I just noticed the crank trigger bracket is Vibrating pretty good when I rev the engine to a certain rpm, which is causing the timing mark not to be rock steady as it should .... Now I wonder if that is also where the 2* retard is coming from... Just ordered a bracket , so I can mount it to the motor instead of the motor plate.... This was a used bracket that someone used on the driver side, and had cut one side off some... The bracket I made to mount the bracket that came with the kit to the motor' Is and looks strong, I don't see how its doing what I see with my eyes.... I still hope its not a problem with the balancer...The bracket that mounts to the stock location timing pointer , will be here later I hope...

04-19-2016, 05:05 PM	#2
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,197 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	*Re: Timing retarding 2 after installing crank trigger** "Set with one magnet"? Did you center it or use leading edge? On magnet old Moroso that was method. Putting at starting pt w loose timing belt? Did you use other style timing light too? Last edited by Dick Butler; 04-19-2016 at 05:09 PM.

06-03-2016, 08:56 PM	#5
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,349 Likes: 328 Liked 280 Times in 150 Posts	*Re: Timing retarding 2 after installing crank trigger** you using a timing chain or a gear drive? FED 387

06-06-2016, 04:49 PM	#7
1968 SS Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto,Ontario Surprise AZ Posts: 16 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	*Re: Timing retarding 2 after installing crank trigger** Normal operation of MSD 7AL-3 ignition box to retard timming up to 4* Set timming at 3,000 RPM as per MSD instructions. Brian .

06-09-2016, 12:30 PM	#8
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,349 Likes: 328 Liked 280 Times in 150 Posts	*Re: Timing retarding 2 after installing crank trigger** Most chain driven cams will retard when you rev the engine and then let the RPM's come back down its the play/slack in the chain doing it---just like what yours is doing--- suggestion---- rev the engine to say 4000 RPM -5000 RPM hold the rpm steady then hold the timing light on the balancer mark move your distributor or pick up on the crank trigger whatever you do to set the timing to the desired timing -- tighten down your pick up or distributor---then recheck the timing again at say 4000 see if it stays where you set it or if it moves- revving and then letting the RPM go up and down allows the chain to advance and retard the timing as the chain loosens and tightens--- make sense??? FED 387

06-09-2016, 12:49 PM	#9
pmrphil Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: CT Posts: 386 Likes: 1,257 Liked 248 Times in 107 Posts	*Re: Timing retarding 2 after installing crank trigger** The timing chain has nothing to do with timing when using a crank trigger, only affects the position of the rotor. I just adjusted for it so it was correct at RPM. Sure does make you wonder, huh? __________________ Phil Molski S/C 1623

04-18-2016, 02:12 PM	#1
colormebad Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 8 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	*Timing retarding 2 after installing crank trigger** I'm running a 7AL-3 Black Ignition' Just installed a sbf used crank trigger..... Set the sensor with one of the magnets, locked on 30* and turned the dist to #1 ... Fired right up. Looks rock solid till I rev the engine, then it retards 2 degrees.... I have tried everything with no luck... The sensor wires match the wires going to the 7AL-3 , but reversed them and timing advanced 20 * so switched back... Crank trigger wheel is on right side' with arrow on outside turning clockwise... Sensor is about 50 airgap from trigger wheel.. Things I tried below... Tried another but used sensor Tried another crank trigger wheel Tried a used digital 7 Just tried a new out of the box digital 7 Have 0 chips in retards not using and ran gnds also Ran gnds from aluminum heads to frame Using flaming river self powered regular timing light ' but tried 3 others Put light on # 6 cyl and still same thing Even though I have heavy gnd's and hot at rear and front of car, ran 10 gauge + & - from 7AL3 to batt Intsalled a new I had laying around , shielded cable from sensor to ign box... Timing was off 2* on balancer when I first built the motor' went back yesterday with a dial indicator in #1 cyl and made sure it was still the same... MSD has went out of their way trying to help me but said they didn't know what else to try.. Anyone here ever have this problem ?? thanks

06-09-2016, 01:22 PM	#10
colormebad Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 8 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	*Re: Timing retarding 2 after installing crank trigger I just noticed the crank trigger bracket is Vibrating** pretty good when I rev the engine to a certain rpm, which is causing the timing mark not to be rock steady as it should .... Now I wonder if that is also where the 2* retard is coming from... Just ordered a bracket , so I can mount it to the motor instead of the motor plate.... This was a used bracket that someone used on the driver side, and had cut one side off some... The bracket I made to mount the bracket that came with the kit to the motor' Is and looks strong, I don't see how its doing what I see with my eyes.... I still hope its not a problem with the balancer...The bracket that mounts to the stock location timing pointer , will be here later I hope...