Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference?

Larry Hill · 10-06-2012, 02:56 PM

In August of 2009 in Brainerd, Luke Bogacki entered a 1970 Nova 402 in AA/SA. The Nova at that time was a natural B/SA car allowing it to also run A/SA or C/SA. He made qualifying runs in AA/SA, then was disqualified for entering the car in the wrong class and was not allowed to race.

This week at Reading, PA, Wayne Totaro entered his 2002 Formula Firebird as a Firehawk. A couple of problems I see is that in the Stock Car Classification Guide, there is not a listing for a Firehawk in 2002. The other problem is he ran the car with a fresh air hood as a Formula which is a natural CC/SA car. So the car can also run A/SA or BB/SA, not B/SA. If he wanted to run the car as a Formula, he would have to put the heavier flat hood on, then the car would fit B/SA. He was allowed to compete in B/SA first round.

To me, it looks like there was no difference. One got sent home and the other got to race.

I feel it is up to the competitor to make sure that he is entering the car in the correct class. Most all Stock Eliminator racers knew that the LS1s just got 12 HP. from Mattingly's performance at Columbus. You would think that NHRA Tech Dept. would have been more than aware of this and would have double-checked for correct class.

I don't know if this will change the outcome of the race, but one thing is for certain--he was in the wrong class if he had a Formula Firebird with a fresh air hood.

sammy pizzolato · 10-06-2012, 05:21 PM

hey larry can any LS1 cars run c/sa any more!

KRatcliff · 10-06-2012, 05:29 PM

Flat hood Formulas and Ram Air Trans Ams can run C/SA plus the Camaros.

Larry Hill · 10-06-2012, 06:02 PM

Sammy just what Kile said.

Tom Moock · 10-06-2012, 06:14 PM

Why are the 2002 hood's 282 pounds ( flat & ram air ) different on the formula and 120 pounds different on the trans am's. Tom

countrypuppy4865 · 10-06-2012, 07:40 PM

I noticed the same thing Mr. Larry. It's up to the racer to know their car!

Tom, to answer your question about the shipping weight, that is the weight GM submitted for that particular car. There were definitely differences in weight on these cars for example from firebird to trans am, stronger shocks were needed for the trans am hatch because it's that much heavier, heavier wheels, ground effects, etc. I don't know the true difference in the amount of the weight, but there is definitely a difference.

SuperCarFan · 10-06-2012, 07:55 PM

If Totaro had done any of the following at this race, it would be an even bigger deal: 1) Won class, 2) Went rounds, or 3) Kept someone from qualifying...

Larry Hill · 10-07-2012, 11:18 AM

If Wayne was in the correct class, no C/SA heads up first round. It does make a difference.

MikeFicacci · 10-07-2012, 11:42 AM

Larry,

Seems that no one who was at the race wants to touch this one and the simple fact is that a mistake was made. The engine got horsepower 3 weeks ago and some people don't stare at the Classification Guides all day long. Everyone was just happy to get in their cars and go racing with the weather that was coming. The heads-up between Bubba and Bertozzi was awesome and neither one of them sat there and said "hey, this sucks, maybe we wouldn't have been here if Totaro was in A". Mistakes are made all day long at the racetrack and this one got through the cracks. How about if a racer tries to drive his competitor into the gravel in the shutdown area cause he is a jack-***? The mistake would be not kicking that competitor out for a year. There are bigger thing to worry about then a guy running at the legal B weight with a car even though his factor is 7.99 simply because of a mistake at a race we were lucky to even get in. If someone at the track who was actually racing had an issue, they should have spoke to the NHRA staff about it.

Billy Nees · 10-07-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeFicacci

If someone at the track who was actually racing had an issue, they should have spoke to the NHRA staff about it.

And that young man, is why we have some of the problems that we do in Stock and SS. Noone is willing to stand up and be counted.

10-06-2012, 02:56 PM	#1
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,278 Likes: 1,636 Liked 9,453 Times in 1,956 Posts	Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? In August of 2009 in Brainerd, Luke Bogacki entered a 1970 Nova 402 in AA/SA. The Nova at that time was a natural B/SA car allowing it to also run A/SA or C/SA. He made qualifying runs in AA/SA, then was disqualified for entering the car in the wrong class and was not allowed to race. This week at Reading, PA, Wayne Totaro entered his 2002 Formula Firebird as a Firehawk. A couple of problems I see is that in the Stock Car Classification Guide, there is not a listing for a Firehawk in 2002. The other problem is he ran the car with a fresh air hood as a Formula which is a natural CC/SA car. So the car can also run A/SA or BB/SA, not B/SA. If he wanted to run the car as a Formula, he would have to put the heavier flat hood on, then the car would fit B/SA. He was allowed to compete in B/SA first round. To me, it looks like there was no difference. One got sent home and the other got to race. I feel it is up to the competitor to make sure that he is entering the car in the correct class. Most all Stock Eliminator racers knew that the LS1s just got 12 HP. from Mattingly's performance at Columbus. You would think that NHRA Tech Dept. would have been more than aware of this and would have double-checked for correct class. I don't know if this will change the outcome of the race, but one thing is for certain--he was in the wrong class if he had a Formula Firebird with a fresh air hood. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

10-06-2012, 05:21 PM	#2
sammy pizzolato Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: houma louisiana Posts: 432 Likes: 52 Liked 56 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? hey larry can any LS1 cars run c/sa any more!

10-06-2012, 05:29 PM	#3
KRatcliff Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 753 Likes: 74 Liked 502 Times in 135 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? Flat hood Formulas and Ram Air Trans Ams can run C/SA plus the Camaros.

10-06-2012, 06:02 PM	#4
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,278 Likes: 1,636 Liked 9,453 Times in 1,956 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? Sammy just what Kile said. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

10-06-2012, 06:14 PM	#5
Tom Moock Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 801 Likes: 1 Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? Why are the 2002 hood's 282 pounds ( flat & ram air ) different on the formula and 120 pounds different on the trans am's. Tom __________________ Tom Moock 5704 STK

10-06-2012, 07:40 PM	#6
countrypuppy4865 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Donaldsonville, LA Posts: 966 Likes: 8 Liked 183 Times in 62 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? I noticed the same thing Mr. Larry. It's up to the racer to know their car! Tom, to answer your question about the shipping weight, that is the weight GM submitted for that particular car. There were definitely differences in weight on these cars for example from firebird to trans am, stronger shocks were needed for the trans am hatch because it's that much heavier, heavier wheels, ground effects, etc. I don't know the true difference in the amount of the weight, but there is definitely a difference. __________________ Jimmy "Cooter" Hidalgo, Jr. 4865 E/SA '04 GTO 4865 SS/GA '99 Firebird Last edited by countrypuppy4865; 10-06-2012 at 07:43 PM.

10-06-2012, 07:55 PM	#7
SuperCarFan Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 101 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? If Totaro had done any of the following at this race, it would be an even bigger deal: 1) Won class, 2) Went rounds, or 3) Kept someone from qualifying...

10-07-2012, 11:18 AM	#8
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,278 Likes: 1,636 Liked 9,453 Times in 1,956 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? If Wayne was in the correct class, no C/SA heads up first round. It does make a difference. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

10-07-2012, 11:42 AM	#9
MikeFicacci Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 239 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Totaro and Bogacki? Is there a difference? Larry, Seems that no one who was at the race wants to touch this one and the simple fact is that a mistake was made. The engine got horsepower 3 weeks ago and some people don't stare at the Classification Guides all day long. Everyone was just happy to get in their cars and go racing with the weather that was coming. The heads-up between Bubba and Bertozzi was awesome and neither one of them sat there and said "hey, this sucks, maybe we wouldn't have been here if Totaro was in A". Mistakes are made all day long at the racetrack and this one got through the cracks. How about if a racer tries to drive his competitor into the gravel in the shutdown area cause he is a jack-***? The mistake would be not kicking that competitor out for a year. There are bigger thing to worry about then a guy running at the legal B weight with a car even though his factor is 7.99 simply because of a mistake at a race we were lucky to even get in. If someone at the track who was actually racing had an issue, they should have spoke to the NHRA staff about it. __________________ Mike Ficacci Stk 1010