What about STOCK ?

[tgriffith]

something I find funny is,,, about a year or so ago,,,I was blasting the buttons in stock and the way they were used and why racers were favoring A-D cars and also the decline of slow cars,,,,IMO, the true essence of what stock is supposed to be about,,,,,its about the guy, out in his garage, building his own parts, cause they dont make stuff for chevettes,,,,,,,,,not the "store bought stocker" were you give some shop about 60k and you pick it up back from the western swing.....It was the majoritys opinion that I shoudl just shut up and race,,,,WOW,,,what a difference a year or so makes after seeing this stuff used correctly!!!

now Im the type of person that ,,,if I cant be competitive,,,Im not going to play,,,,,,and the fact is,,I cant compete with the 2 steps and buttons.....I dont intend to quit racing locally and they just dont allow any electronics,,,,,,,so I quit racing stock,,,just that simple.......there are exceptions to the rule such as Myron,,,Beard and a few others,,,but they are very few.......

I see after a year or so,,finally some of you understand just how and why they are using 2 steps and buttons...and also understand why most are wanting to go at least D or quicker,,,,,,It takes that to "pro tree race" a stocker,,,,,,,,,,so now ,,"it the buttons and 2 steps gotta go",,,,,,,well good for you guys,,,,It time to put nhra/ Ihra on the hot seat

Also,,if i understand the rest of the rules,,,,,isnt anything Illegal in a Superstocker also Illegal in a Stocker,,,,,,,do not the rules progress from illegal to legal the more of advanced class you run????

I had addressed this issue the the powers that be in both organizations 2 years ago and both were concerned but didnt know at that time exactly what was going to take place.....Ihra sealed the buttons but IMO,,that isnt enough......

Like chip,,,to my surprise,,there wasnt any of the killer guys at the 50k,,,,,excluding Zane and a few footbraker greats,,,,,I mean 10k, 50k and 10k for $675 is alot to pass up .....I really thought more of the stocker guys would show for this kind of money,,,but as stated before "no buttons" was the rule

[Chip THELEGEND Johnson]

I may be stupid but lets go one step farther.

Buttons------ Transbrake/linelocks??????????????

My interpetation is button o.k. as long as it's hooked to 2-step only.

How many people have it hooked to something else?

How do you police it????????

Dave; New car is coming along. It looks great and we've been testing. Needs a little more e.t. before we race it though. Thanks
Chip

[76 RACER]

Chip...Nice to see that you know what the best BLACKSTREAK REMOVER is!!! Good Luck with the new car!

[Bobby Zlatkin]

tgriffith;

[ why racers were favoring A-D cars and also the decline of slow cars,,,,IMO, the true essence of what stock is supposed to be about,,,,,its about the guy, out in his garage, building his own parts, cause they dont make stuff for chevettes,,,,,,,,,not the "store bought stocker" were you give some shop about 60k and you pick it up back from the western swing.

The true essence of stock? How about Tom Gould massaging a Corviar for 41 years that no one makes anything for and getting it from the 18's into the 14's all within the strict limits of the stock elim. rules. Or Steve Pohill doing the same (into the 15's) with the Escort he used to deliver pizza's with as a teenager (the story that I heard).

[jdfpam]

Jim,
You sure did start a hot topic here!


Stockracer,
When I said they should learn, I also said remember how to footbrake. Most of these guys started out with their feet. They just went to the button to win more.
The majority of us against buttons in stock aren't crying and calling those hitters cheaters at all. They are obviously good drivers with great equipment and a lot of experience. However, I just believe that the majority of those big name hitters wouldn't be winning 100,000 plus per year if they had to footbrake. Have you ever raced both ways? If so, you would know that it is a lot easier to tune in your reaction times with a adjustable button or two step than it is changing your stage RPM to adjust your lights with your feet. (I have, and I know there is an advantage to the button. I don't use it in my stocker, because I am against them. I used one in a bracket car that I drove for a little while) When we only get two hits at a national event, the button cars can more easily adjust, therefor giving them an advantage. It is impossible for a footbrake racer to stage exactly the same RPM each time, which leads to slightly inconsistent reaction times.

By the way, we all aren't losers either. I have won over $100,000 with my feet. It has just taken me 13 years instead of one.


Jeff Day

[stockracer]

Jeff Day...I have reced both forms..I do prefer the button. I am curious how many of you aginst the button have used one? Or tested one...Ive used instant, moroso .01, moroso .03, biondo .05, and the AX .4....The best is probably the moroso .03...Most consistant. But at the most I have .03 adjustability. If im .060 with it, run it all the way up then Im .030, Now we have to change rpm, then carb settings because the higher the rpms the less fuel commin off the chip. The difference between footbraking and a button is position of your right foot. Thats it. Still got the brake pedal mashed to the floor.

Polhill...Though I have never met you or raced with you (opposite ends of the country) I respect you for your accomplishments in a fwd stick car. And im sorry that my idea for changing stock dosent fit your car...guess you will have to change. Thats what everyone wants right...THEIR idea of stock.

[Greg Hill]

Two steps in stock should be used only as a rpm limiting device as they are in stick cars. They should not be used as a means to leave the starting line. Anyone that has ever played with a practice tree knows it's easier to have cosistently good lights letting go of a button than using a foot control. I have heard from 2 sources that there is consideration for next year of having any 2 step button in automatic cars in stock mounted only on the brake pedal. Like Jim I think 2 steps should not be legal for automatic cars in stock because without them you would eliminate most of the ways to cheat on the starting line. One other thing that I feel is that you would have more different winners if stock was a footbrake class only.

[Boo]

Take deepstaging away....same drivers still win.
Take Buttons away, same drivers still win, probably more so. A button may make a good driver better but it also makes a bad driver decent..... kind of like a delay box, it somewhat evens it up a little bit.

Chip, Beard etc, you guys should realize best that most of the best stock racers (bertozzi, biondo, fletcher) grew up and dominated footbraking. Look at some of the archives at the local tracks and look at some of the reaction times of these guys going off the footbrake.

The fact is those big footbrake races (with buybacks) are more rounds and less money to win (after splits) than winning a national event. Even the BIGESST footbrake race EVER which took place on sunday which was won by Scotty Richardson, paid him $22,000 after the splits while on the same day Peter Biondo and Brad Plourd were winnning a national event worth $16,000 in california going off the same bottom yellow. Now take the double buyback 10k or 20k footbrake races which end up going 9 or 10 rounds and only paying 8k to 12k after splits and you do the math.

I am not taking anything away from the footbrake races as they are great but after you do the math and splits, they aren't as worth going to as the flyers show.

[tgriffith]

Boo, the problem I have with the buttons and 2 steps is that it makes a larger gap between the faster cars and slower cars on the competitive side of adjustability on RT`s....and true,,,same drivers will probably win and thats ok,,,rite now,,more shots on the tree is so important at the national level or any level,,,and stock has become a pro tree race,,,, In all other motorsports, rules are put in place to keep things on a level playing field and Ihra/Nhra has overlooked this issue for a while in stock

as far as Richardson or any other racer, as far as the 50k ,,,,the purse was paid,,,what drivers tend to do with there share isnt part of the program,,,,anyone of the final 8 could have said "no" and that would have been done,,,they chose to make it profitable for the final 8,,,,which is something you dont see in stock,,,,everyone looses that isnt in the finals,,,and Ive been to a few that even the R-ups just got even for the weekend...there was one round of buybacks and thats it

I may be wrong,, unless he worked a deal in the finals with luke,,,but I thought it was 30k to the winner,,,,Im rather sure him and luke are good friends so they might have worked a deal in the finals....I also do know for a FACT that a few had gotten entrys and when it was determined that under no circumstance would buttons be allowed AND tech was going to be tough,,,either sold or got refunds,,,,maybe a scheduling conflict or who knows,,,but what remains a fact is the best non electronic race in history took place and alot of big names wasnt there.....

[tgriffith]

if im remembering correctly,,,in the 50k ,,the deal at 8 was ,,,,,1/4`s got 2k plus round money,,,,,semi`s got 3k plus round money ,,,r-up got 18k and winner got 30k,,,,,,,, again,,Im rather sure that was the deal at 8,,,never did ask scotty the deal in the finals,,,,,alot of times,,racers like to keep that personal,,,