Roller Lifter Question

[Bryan Broaddus]

What I have found, and I am sure some of you guys have too, any time something is damaged in the valve train and the lifter runs uncontrolled on the cam, in other words the spring is not controlling the lifter and keeping it in contact with the ramp on the cam, the lifter will fail. It might not be on the next pass but given a few runs that lifter will fail. So if a rocker backs off or a pushrod tip is damaged, you lose a lash cap or anything in the system that allows excessive lash I will immediately pull that lifter pair and replace it. It may seem excessive but I really don't like the results of a broken lifter. The cost of a single pair of lifters is cheap compared to broken lifter and all the Crap it runs through the engine.

[nhramnl]

That's exactly the point that I keep hearing over and over again. Everyone I've talked to says that most currently available, true "race-quality" lifters will live if valve spring pressure is high enough to keep the valvetrain from going out of control and (to Brian's point) the lifter is replaced whenever there is an increase in lash observed. Once the lifter "bounces" on the lobe, you're pretty much done, because the roller bearing needles that were at the top and bottom of the wheel at the point where contact occured get "flat-spotted" and are doomed to ultimate failure.

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by nhramnl

Thanks guys. From what I've learned here and through directly talking with lots of people, I'm leaning toward changing the Crowers for Morels. The biggest reason would be because the engine builder didn't open the lifter bores up (to a larger diameter) and I think the Crower might be marginal at .842. Thanks again to everybody who offered help. Mike Lyons

Crower lifters run right a .841 and are usually to loose in a GM lifter bore that is right at .844

The Morels run right at .842 which is to GM spec and if the bore are at .844 you should be fine.

Lifter bores need to be checked for wear and roundness for sure. GM lifter are reamed and often don't have a very good finish for a roller lifter.

Most blocks I go to .904 and fit to the spec. recommended by the manufacturer

[Mike Taylor 3601]

I have customer w/.842 crowers severe dutys w hippo w/.180 offset has made a lot of passes, have 400lbs. seat 850-950 open (can't remember off top of my head exactly)
spins 8k w/24lbs boost.

One other tip is most .904 when offset are .210 offset ,alot of stuff that .030 straightens pushrods up alot,
.904's usaully run longer also
Mike Taylor 3601

[1320racer]

Been using Crower .842 Severe Duty roller lifters with HIPPO since 2000 without 1 issue. I've put 1000 passes on 2 different sets before retiring them from service in my stock block, 700+HP 468BB seeing 7200 RPM in the lights.

Been running them in my 900+HP, Dart big M block with stock lifter bores, 522 BB since 2008 that sees 8000 RPM in the lights and have retired 2 sets them from service at 500 passes.

My springs are Manley polished Nextek #221424 250/800.

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

Been using Crower .842 Severe Duty roller lifters with HIPPO since 2000 without 1 issue. I've put 1000 passes on 2 different sets before retiring them from service in my stock block, 700+HP 468BB seeing 7200 RPM in the lights.

Been running them in my 900+HP, Dart big M block with stock lifter bores, 522 BB since 2008 that sees 8000 RPM in the lights and have retired 2 sets them from service at 500 passes.

My springs are Manley polished Nextek #221424 250/800.

Never seen an .842 crower the ones I have seen been right at .841 same with ISKY, I know I have a set in the shop for a build for a customer and the Dart block the lifter bores are under size and Crowers should work fine for this build.

I don't let any block out the door t\with out fitting the bores to the lifters.

.903 Crower I was told by Carry Novak from Crower the best they could do for roundness was .0003 to .0005 Its hard to make oval lifter bores.

Most guys never measure lifters or bores for roundness or sizing and saying your crowers are .842 shows they were not measured for sure.

If you missed my earlier post look over this link.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...fter+roundness

Here is a link where crower told me that GM lifter bores were .8425 is why there lifter are .841
http://www.dartheads.com/dartboard/a...hp/t-2429.html

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Carl,
You do know that .0003-.0005 is 3-5 tenths of a thousand's right.
.842,.875,and .904 are what the whole camshaft industry uses as reference to lifter sizes usaully refering to the the lifter bore itself.

Does it also upset you that your .030 over pistons only measure .0265 over when they are made for .030 overbore w/.0035 clearance, I guess you think they should be called .0265 over pistons?

Mike Taylor 3601

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by Mike Taylor 3601

Carl,
You do know that .0003-.0005 is 3-5 tenths of a thousand's right.
.842,.875,and .904 are what the whole camshaft industry uses as reference to lifter sizes usaully refering to the the lifter bore itself.

Does it also upset you that your .030 over pistons only measure .0265 over when they are made for .030 overbore w/.0035 clearance, I guess you think they should be called .0265 over pistons?

Mike Taylor 3601

I See more lifters probably then you do!! Does that up set you ????????? I actually machine a lot of lifter bores for different lifters. There seems no standard size roller lifter for a GM lifter bore. Let see Crower, Isky seem to be.001 under the Morel lifters which are sized to the GM roller lifters. Does that up set you ????

Let go to the .904 roller lifters the Jesel, Crower, ISKY run the smallest and again the Morel lifter runs the same size as a standard OEM AMC lifter. Does that up set you as well.

I CNC machine a lot of lifter bores in block for customers all over the world, Not one block leaves either of my shops with out fitting the bores to the lifters DOES THAT UP SET YOU??

Yes a .030 over piston is made to fit a .030 over bore does that upset you.

A.040 over piston is made to fit a .040 over bore does that up set you so on and so on.

This is a little bit of what we do at our shops, Does this up set you LOL
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93124

Here is my F/B page does that up set you LOL
https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.n...st?ref=tn_tnmn

After 35 plus years building performance engines I have a pretty good idea what works and what does not and know a little bit about lifters and lifter bore clearance. Does that up set you

[1320racer]

Mike Talyor KNOWS!

Meanwhile, I believe half of what I see with my own eyes and none of what I read on internet forums.

All I can speak about is what I KNOW works from 1st hand experience racing 36 weekends a season for the past 22+ years.

BTW, carl with his 35+ year claim is 53 years old and even has a blog about him

http://www.cncblockne.com/

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

Mike Talyor KNOWS!

and carl with his 35+ year claim is 53 years old

http://www.cncblockne.com/

My first V/8 engine I built I was 14 years old and before that I was working on Honda Motorcycle engines at my grand father shop at the age of 8. So I have been around engines for a few years.

First circle track engine was built in 1979

Hinkson Automotive R&D was started in the early 80's

CNC BLOCKS NORTHEAST was started in 2000 and INC in 2006 any more questions ???

When my website is done I will post it you will see JESUP BLOG and math does not add up.