Stocker Cylinder Heads....

[Marine One]

To provide the level of clarification desired on every subject in every class, would require a 10,000 page rule book that would be more confusing than the US tax code.

[BlueOval Ralph]

Shoot peening is also very good to hide porting just make sure you use the correct media.

[Run to Rund]

In the 1970s Racing Head Service and others collected dozens of heads and selected the best ones for Stock. There aren't many of these heads left today and it is "amazing" how well they flow, all of them, not just the 5-10% that RHS found. The 11th Commandment: "Thou shalt not get caught." lol.

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by Wade_Owens

The way the rules stand today, you may or may not be legal depending on who worked your heads and what division your torn down in. I currently want to purchase a new set of heads. I have talked to tech over the last 10 months about these cylinder head rumors and what will pass and what wont. If I'm going to spend $1700-$5200 dollars, I ask for 2 things, a lower et and to pass tech.

Its no secret that the top head guys are grinding, porting and covering up the work with acid, media or spray welding. It was done back in the day and still happens. If some are going to be told its ok, isnt that where I need to spend my money? You know their stuff should be faster.

All I want to know is 1) what are the current rules, 2) will tech be consistent, 3)is the person or people telling everyone its ok to grind and cover up going to stand by what he/they have told the engine builders, or flip back and use the written word as a scape goat.

Everyone one of you guys who know me know I'm not a **** stirrer and dont want to be considered one. Just get everyone on the same page. If the rulebook is law, update it and stand by it. If modifications are going to be ok, dont quote the rulebook to us. That judgement call BS has got to go.

There is no pride in running an illegal car for me. If I'm fortunate enough to stand there and hold a class win Wally, it will be because my car is LEGAL. I just need a little clarification on what that is.............

NHRA Technical Bulletins or NHRA accepted. Porting,
polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited.

The rule is simple you can not do any of that legally. So If you want to be legal as you say you can not get heads that have any of those things done.

In My opionion (that is worth pretty much nothing) The problem is they don't let the tech people do their job. And the cheaters need to accept the fact that they got got cheating and not run and get their lawyer. Face it any one that pays $5000 for smallblock Chevy stocker heads knows dam well that the heads are not legal acording to the rule book.
Nobody cares what is actually legal all they care is will the lack of proper tech let them run them anyway.

[Dean Feiock]

Originally Posted by BlueOval Ralph

Shoot peening is also very good to hide porting just make sure you use the correct media.

That would explain why there are more than a few of these in engine shops across the US:
http://abs-products.com/blast-cabine...-bastard.shtml

Originally Posted by novassdude

NHRA Technical Bulletins or NHRA accepted. Porting,
polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited.

The rule is simple you can not do any of that legally. So If you want to be legal as you say you can not get heads that have any of those things done.

In My opionion (that is worth pretty much nothing) The problem is they don't let the tech people do their job. And the cheaters need to accept the fact that they got got cheating and not run and get their lawyer. Face it any one that pays $5000 for smallblock Chevy stocker heads knows dam well that the heads are not legal acording to the rule book.
Nobody cares what is actually legal all they care is will the lack of proper tech let them run them anyway.

Wade did not come on here to be bashed. He has a legitimate concern and was very honest about his concerns. The word "legal" doesn't really apply anymore, if it ever did. As with almost any motorsports, what "will and will not pass tech" is a more appropriate phrase.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dean Feiock

what "will and will not pass tech" is a more appropriate phrase.

BINGO! You win the prize!

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by Dean Feiock

That would explain why there are more than a few of these in engine shops across the US:
http://abs-products.com/blast-cabine...-bastard.shtml



Wade did not come on here to be bashed. He has a legitimate concern and was very honest about his concerns. The word "legal" doesn't really apply anymore, if it ever did. As with almost any motorsports, what "will and will not pass tech" is a more appropriate phrase.

You are proably right that the phrase should be "will and will not pass tech"

What will and what won't pass tech may be reality. But the fact remains if you or if you have someone do any of the above things to a cylinder head it is not a legal cylinder head. It may very well pass tech but it is still not a legal head. Until they change the wording of the rule doing any porting and covering it up is still not legal

Now on those same lines a good digitizer could easily take the guess work out of the situation. All you need is a real untouched head to get the numbers off. All the old cars people used the core shift as to why that would not work. But with these new factory race cars with the cnc ported heads from the factory. You should be able to know without a doubt if someone has changed the cylinder head. But none of that matters because Neither HRA is ever going to take following the rules they set seriously. Hence how they got to the mess they have now.

[Ed Fernandez]

When Vinny Gumbotz did my head many moons ago he guaranteed they'de pass tech anywhere,anytime.

[Dean Feiock]

Originally Posted by novassdude

You are proably right that the phrase should be "will and will not pass tech"

What will and what won't pass tech may be reality. But the fact remains if you or if you have someone do any of the above things to a cylinder head it is not a legal cylinder head. It may very well pass tech but it is still not a legal head. Until they change the wording of the rule doing any porting and covering it up is still not legal

Now on those same lines a good digitizer could easily take the guess work out of the situation. All you need is a real untouched head to get the numbers off. All the old cars people used the core shift as to why that would not work. But with these new factory race cars with the cnc ported heads from the factory. You should be able to know without a doubt if someone has changed the cylinder head. But none of that matters because Neither HRA is ever going to take following the rules they set seriously. Hence how they got to the mess they have now.

I am going to use my motor as an example. I own many sets of 416 heads. And I can tell you that there are several different bowl shapes, straight from the factory. There are several sets that have a secondary cut in the bowl in additition to the factory bowl cut. Personally, I believe these were heads that were cast for a 1.72 valve and were opened up at the factory to accept a 1.84 valve as they needed them.

So which head would you use as a model?

I am told at a recent race, they pulled down three 305 motors. And I am told that all three heads looked different.

So how do you decide which head was wrong?

I don't want to speak for Wade, but I think his concern is simple. We have been given runner volumes. If we meet those volumes, all other measured items pass, and there are no grinding marks in our runners, shouldn't the head pass tech? At least that is the assumption many were under.

You say buy a digitizer. I say NHRA would need 8-9 of them minimum. And then they would need to train on how to use them. And then "which" head do you use as model?

I don't envy NHRA tech. We are a big pain in the a**. They work hard when we are having fun. We bitch when they do their job and we bitch when they don't.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Dean Feiock

I am going to use my motor as an example. I own many sets of 416 heads. And I can tell you that there are several different bowl shapes, straight from the factory. There are several sets that have a secondary cut in the bowl in additition to the factory bowl cut. Personally, I believe these were heads that were cast for a 1.72 valve and were opened up at the factory to accept a 1.84 valve as they needed them.

So which head would you use as a model?

I am told at a recent race, they pulled down three 305 motors. And I am told that all three heads looked different.

So how do you decide which head was wrong?

I don't want to speak for Wade, but I think his concern is simple. We have been given runner volumes. If we meet those volumes, all other measured items pass, and there are no grinding marks in our runners, shouldn't the head pass tech? At least that is the assumption many were under.

You say buy a digitizer. I say NHRA would need 8-9 of them minimum. And then they would need to train on how to use them. And then "which" head do you use as model?

I don't envy NHRA tech. We are a big pain in the a**. They work hard when we are having fun. We bitch when they do their job and we bitch when they don't.

You are correct, the OEM's used the same castings for different applications were they changed the valve sizes and many times the chambers too. Also, you can add core shift issue on thin late model castings and the diverse foundries used for castings.

The problem in using a digitizer is that you will need to do statistical analysis to get a measurement that would cover the variation in the casting. Besides, NHRA will not invest in such equipment either.

Just think the variations they already have on the burrettes due to the differences of material and manufacturer.