Cheating

Michael Beard · 09-14-2007, 06:34 PM

This thread is just for Ed O'Brien, so we don't fill up other threads.

>> Do you really think there are people that can cut better lights week in and week out than S/C racers with cars built with soft converters and delay boxes ?

Which S/C drivers? Yes, there are people that can cut better lights week in and week out than some S/C racers. (Delay boxes, I understand, but I'm not sure where soft converters enter into it...)

What's the season average reaction time for an average S/C racer?

Yup, IHRA caught one Stocker guy and one Modified guy. I don't really think cheating is rampant. I do think there are some guys who have some things figured out that other people haven't even thought of yet.

Just my opinion.

5919 SSKA · 09-14-2007, 07:39 PM

According to "the Racers Mind" work book I have these are the following Averages: Stock .0296, Super Gas .0196, Super Comp .0186, Super Stock .0318, Pro Stock .039

Travis Sorokie
5919 SS/KA

Bud Lefevre · 09-14-2007, 07:46 PM

I think he's talking about the infamous "dirty dozen" banned from " NORWALK "

tpoh815 · 09-14-2007, 08:24 PM

it was to my understanding that some returned and raced at norwalk earlier this year!

09-14-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpoh815

it was to my understanding that some returned and raced at norwalk earlier this year!

From what I was told Mr Bader was not vey happy
about it.I WONder what NHRA did or said to him about the situation?

Ed F.
NHRA #15
IHRA #1945
T/SA

Michael Beard · 09-14-2007, 08:49 PM

>> According to "the Racers Mind" work book I have these are the following Averages: Stock .0296, Super Gas .0196, Super Comp .0186, Super Stock .0318, Pro Stock .039

Hm! I find some of those numbers very surprising. Did it say what the sample group was, or how those averages were derived? Glad you found that. Pretty interesting.

For what it's worth Ed, the year I footbraked in Super/Pro, my season average was an .017, just under the noted Super Comp average above. I'm sure there are plenty of guys sharper than I on the tree.

Isaac Zane · 09-14-2007, 09:40 PM

We have R.T.'s published(from drag race central) data from the last few years. Those with 80 or so minimum hits are

Peter Biondo.. .025 avg. .... .062 worst lite
Clint Blezien... .034
Al Corda........ .039
Bernie Cunningham .030
Mark Faul..... .029.... 44 events
Dan Fletcher... .028.... 192 lights.... 47 events
Kevin Helms.... .031
Clark Holroyd.. .037..... 2 reds
Jody Lang .... .025... with ZERO redlights!!!... 29 events
Tody Lang ..... .028 .... 3 reds
Chad Loge.... .045
Keith Lynch.... .049
James Paul.... .025... 2 reds....060.. worst lite!
David Rampy..... .033... 44 events
Eric Waldo..... .039
Steve Wann..... .047
Ben Wentzel......047 .... 2 reds
Mickey Whaley... .040... 2 reds..
Lee Zane......... .022... 4 reds... 40 events

This average was the result of ALL published r.t.'s. Some probably shouldn't have been included, but oh well.
Many times the first two rounds info wasn't published. Maybe Nitro Joe can get more info. Our owner LIKES DATA!!!

These were some of the best with a large number of hits. I have no idea where "The Racers Mind" got their numbers.

Many more could have been included with 60 or more "hit's" but I wasn't typing them all.

Isaac Zane · 09-14-2007, 10:27 PM

Red lights were not included in the average. These were some of the lesser number of redlights.

tgriffith · 09-14-2007, 10:51 PM

It would be interesting to see the averages from 5 years ago compared to 2007,,may give me a winter project to try and average RT of stock at the nationals In Nhra from 2002 and then do the same from 2007,,,,,,Im guessing,,,(((and this is just a guess))) after prior studying of past RT`s that I will find a solid .03 decrease in RT`s from 2002 compared to 2007`s,,,,,,,,and I would just about bet that the S/C would not have increased any,,,,,,,,, I know this may belong on the other topic BUT,, if that statement would turn out to be true,,,,My assumptions on the 2 steps would be accurate

Bernie Cunningham · 09-14-2007, 11:34 PM

Isaac, that's some pretty cool sh** !! I've been saying for a while now just how good the Stk/SS crowd has gotten with reacts, ya look at the Sunday eliminations and you'll see just how we've EVOLVED, even beating the box guys.

Tim, that's a lot of work but I can say right now, LED's, it's got nothing to do with your witch hunt. The box guy's just take out more delay and we all got better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Two steps have been around for ages, c'mon be fair with your think'in. You need something else to do. LOL

What happened 10-15-20 years ago has nothing to do with what happens now, it's called EVOLUTION, I believe the opposite would put us back in the stone age, we'll continue to use technology whether YOU like it or not !!! Keep up or light your fires with a flint.

I think that this years Reading race was the best collection of reacts I've ever seen ! A great contest if I've ever seen one!
B

09-14-2007, 07:39 PM	#2
5919 SSKA Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 284 Likes: 20 Liked 19 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Cheating According to "the Racers Mind" work book I have these are the following Averages: Stock .0296, Super Gas .0196, Super Comp .0186, Super Stock .0318, Pro Stock .039 Travis Sorokie 5919 SS/KA __________________ Racing web page

09-14-2007, 07:46 PM	#3
Bud Lefevre Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 250 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Cheating I think he's talking about the infamous "dirty dozen" banned from " NORWALK " __________________ Bud Lefevre 3075 STK IHRA World Record Holder

09-14-2007, 08:24 PM	#4
tpoh815 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: West Seneca Posts: 527 Likes: 48 Liked 18 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Cheating it was to my understanding that some returned and raced at norwalk earlier this year!

09-14-2007, 08:49 PM	#6
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Cheating >> According to "the Racers Mind" work book I have these are the following Averages: Stock .0296, Super Gas .0196, Super Comp .0186, Super Stock .0318, Pro Stock .039 Hm! I find some of those numbers very surprising. Did it say what the sample group was, or how those averages were derived? Glad you found that. Pretty interesting. For what it's worth Ed, the year I footbraked in Super/Pro, my season average was an .017, just under the noted Super Comp average above. I'm sure there are plenty of guys sharper than I on the tree. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-14-2007, 09:40 PM	#7
Isaac Zane Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Jersey, nexta, NOTHING! Posts: 361 Likes: 375 Liked 50 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Cheating We have R.T.'s published(from drag race central) data from the last few years. Those with 80 or so minimum hits are Peter Biondo.. .025 avg. .... .062 worst lite Clint Blezien... .034 Al Corda........ .039 Bernie Cunningham .030 Mark Faul..... .029.... 44 events Dan Fletcher... .028.... 192 lights.... 47 events Kevin Helms.... .031 Clark Holroyd.. .037..... 2 reds Jody Lang .... .025... with ZERO redlights!!!... 29 events Tody Lang ..... .028 .... 3 reds Chad Loge.... .045 Keith Lynch.... .049 James Paul.... .025... 2 reds....060.. worst lite! David Rampy..... .033... 44 events Eric Waldo..... .039 Steve Wann..... .047 Ben Wentzel......047 .... 2 reds Mickey Whaley... .040... 2 reds.. Lee Zane......... .022... 4 reds... 40 events This average was the result of ALL published r.t.'s. Some probably shouldn't have been included, but oh well. Many times the first two rounds info wasn't published. Maybe Nitro Joe can get more info. Our owner LIKES DATA!!! These were some of the best with a large number of hits. I have no idea where "The Racers Mind" got their numbers. Many more could have been included with 60 or more "hit's" but I wasn't typing them all. __________________ Isaac Zane STK 1237 J/SA Buick Apollo Patriot Guard Rider DOOF 43

09-14-2007, 06:34 PM	#1
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Cheating This thread is just for Ed O'Brien, so we don't fill up other threads. >> Do you really think there are people that can cut better lights week in and week out than S/C racers with cars built with soft converters and delay boxes ? Which S/C drivers? Yes, there are people that can cut better lights week in and week out than some S/C racers. (Delay boxes, I understand, but I'm not sure where soft converters enter into it...) What's the season average reaction time for an average S/C racer? Yup, IHRA caught one Stocker guy and one Modified guy. I don't really think cheating is rampant. I do think there are some guys who have some things figured out that other people haven't even thought of yet. Just my opinion. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-14-2007, 10:27 PM	#8
Isaac Zane Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Jersey, nexta, NOTHING! Posts: 361 Likes: 375 Liked 50 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Cheating Red lights were not included in the average. These were some of the lesser number of redlights. __________________ Isaac Zane STK 1237 J/SA Buick Apollo Patriot Guard Rider DOOF 43

09-14-2007, 10:51 PM	#9
tgriffith Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 187 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Cheating It would be interesting to see the averages from 5 years ago compared to 2007,,may give me a winter project to try and average RT of stock at the nationals In Nhra from 2002 and then do the same from 2007,,,,,,Im guessing,,,(((and this is just a guess))) after prior studying of past RT`s that I will find a solid .03 decrease in RT`s from 2002 compared to 2007`s,,,,,,,,and I would just about bet that the S/C would not have increased any,,,,,,,,, I know this may belong on the other topic BUT,, if that statement would turn out to be true,,,,My assumptions on the 2 steps would be accurate

09-14-2007, 11:34 PM	#10
Bernie Cunningham Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 558 Likes: 24 Liked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Cheating Isaac, that's some pretty cool sh** !! I've been saying for a while now just how good the Stk/SS crowd has gotten with reacts, ya look at the Sunday eliminations and you'll see just how we've EVOLVED, even beating the box guys. Tim, that's a lot of work but I can say right now, LED's, it's got nothing to do with your witch hunt. The box guy's just take out more delay and we all got better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Two steps have been around for ages, c'mon be fair with your think'in. You need something else to do. LOL What happened 10-15-20 years ago has nothing to do with what happens now, it's called EVOLUTION, I believe the opposite would put us back in the stone age, we'll continue to use technology whether YOU like it or not !!! Keep up or light your fires with a flint. I think that this years Reading race was the best collection of reacts I've ever seen ! A great contest if I've ever seen one! B __________________ Bernie Cunningham 7053 STK Last edited by Bernie Cunningham; 09-14-2007 at 11:57 PM.