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Old 02-20-2012, 05:50 PM   #21
1320racer
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

it is so they can also be run as a coil over shock. So you're running coil springs in the stock pockets and not coil over shocks?
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

I'm running a factory type 5" OD spring (Santhuff 180 lb) which goes into the factory pockets. No coilovers.

I don't doubt what you are saying that everything can be controlled with shocks, springs, travel settings. Ultimately, none of those things offer the margin of safety of having a wheelie bar back there if I happen to miss the suspension tuneup. If the track is marginal and I happen to be fighting traction, I'd like to be able to set things up full loose and let it eat and not worry about how high the wheelie is going to be. This car is nose heavy with little/no trunk overhang and I don't run ballast. I would imagine most first gen Camaro stockers run at least some amount of ballast in the trunk.

Is there a problem with letting the front end rise and ride the bar a few feet if necessary? What are the drawbacks to a single wheelie bar? Am I still in for problems in good air if I miss the suspension tuneup and it hits the bars?
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

I have not come across any drawbacks or disadvantages with the single wheel. However the bar is tunable. That is where the ET is.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Hill View Post
i run Ken's bar. it works well. the installation is an obvious breeze as there is no welding required. i found that you have to make sure the spot welds holding the diff tubes in have to be ground smooth. i find that the higher the wheel stand, the quicker my run. As sson as i run the bar i lose .1. i set it so it just misses the rear valance (i know cause i have the dents to prove it!), for every inch i lower it i lose .06 to .1. i have run as quick as 1.33 60 ft and i am not having any spin or unloading issues through the launch.


last time i checked, he had some good photos on his site.

http://kenkeirracecars.com/


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I appreciate the info.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

my good friend with the green small block '69 Camaro could put it on the bumper every pass if he wanted. He doesn't though, rather he tunes the wheelie to weather and track conditions. He doesn't have any weight in the trunk just a chassis/suspension that works nor does he have a wheelie bar.

I'm just informing you that you CAN control/calm the wheelie with what you have as well you can swap in stiffer springs and/or ballast up front.

If you want a wheelie bar go for it.

Last edited by 1320racer; 02-20-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:01 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

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Originally Posted by 1320racer View Post
my good friend with the green small block '69 Camaro could put it on the bumper every pass if he wanted. He doesn't though, rather he tunes the wheelie to weather and track conditions. He doesn't have any weight in the trunk just a chassis/suspension that works nor does he have a wheelie bar.

I'm just informing you that you CAN control/calm the wheelie with what you have as well you can swap in stiffer springs and/or ballast up front.

If you want a wheelie bar go for it.
I am sure when you have 14" of tire touching the track you can easily tune your front shocks, rear shocks, front and rear ballast - tie your car down, you could probabley sit in the passenger seat and it wouldn't make a differance to what your 60 ft would be. I am with 40 Coupe - i have been 38 runs in row on 4 different tracks in 5 different weeks and kept the never changed thedial in (running dead on to the hundredth - except the last run at st thomas -.003 which was a good thing!)...except for three runs. one blew the tires off like i was in the water box (first pass of the morning) and then the same day by-run into the finals same thing, then second qualifier at the next race, was still about an inch off the rear bumper at the 330 hoping that the car would stay straight....the wheelie bars when on the next run, right after i changed my drawers... and have not been off. i no longer wounder if i'll have to start evasive action 1 second after i launch, i can concentrate on the light. i will be installing Santauff 180 springs this spring and a set of their double adjustbale shocks. i am going to try to run this setup and my glide without the bars. i am hoping the car comes up a bit higher with the gluide with the new suspension setup. either way, the wheelie bracket is now permanently mounted to the diff, and the bars come to every race with me.

I am sure there are guys running quicker 60's than me with first gen camaro, 9" tires and are able to the control their wheel stands, i am just not there yet. the tires are normally dead hooked, but the track seems to dictate the amount of birds-eye-view i get!

40 Coupe, the car looks great!
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:59 AM   #27
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

Listen to race watcher .He Knows .
Usally charges for this info LOL
Hope to see you at a track soon racewatcher
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:06 AM   #28
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

James, you know I know too, you've been in the other lane more than once watching me carry the front wheels on my Chevelle past the 60 foot clocks and what I have posted will do exactly as I have stated.


Quote:
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I am sure when you have 14" of tire touching the track you can easily tune your front shocks, rear shocks, front and rear ballast - tie your car down, you could probabley sit in the passenger seat and it wouldn't make a differance to what your 60 ft would be. I am sure there are guys running quicker 60's than me with first gen camaro, 9" tires and are able to the control their wheel stands, i am just not there yet.
There are and perhaps you missed the photo of my former Chevelle. It had 10" tires as does the '69 Camaro I've refered to. Neither have wheelie bars, both hook in a car wash and they've been 1.28 and 1.27 respectively in 60 foot off the footbrake.

Again, if Garret wants a wheelie bar, he'll get a wheelie bar. I'm just advising him as I have been for the last decade, that he don't need a wheelie bar to control his wheelstands.

Last edited by 1320racer; 02-21-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1320racer View Post
James, you know I know too, you've been in the other lane more than once watching me carry the front wheels on my Chevelle past the 60 foot clocks and what I have posted will do exactly as I have stated.



There are and perhaps you missed the photo of my former Chevelle. It had 10" tires as does the '69 Camaro I've refered to. Neither have wheelie bars, both hook in a car wash and they've been 1.28 and 1.27 respectively in 60 foot off the footbrake.

Again, if Garret wants a wheelie bar, he'll get a wheelie bar. I'm just advising him as I have been for the last decade, that he don't need a wheelie bar to control his wheelstands.
Put the wheelie bar on, and start tuning. Can you post some time slips from this chevelle, especially the 1.28 60 foot slip. Thanks.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars

No, the car was sold in 2008 and the 1.28 recorded in 2007.

Here's the launch photo of that run...



the time slip is in the hands of Bret Schlichtig, owner/driver of the car in the other lane, who works for Grumpy at Jenkins Competition.

Last edited by 1320racer; 02-24-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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