HOME FORUM RULES CONTACT
     
   
   

Go Back   CLASS RACER FORUM > Class Racer Forums > Stock and Super Stock Tech


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-04-2010, 04:10 PM   #21
Rich Biebel
VIP Member
 
Rich Biebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs
Posts: 2,273
Likes: 25
Liked 510 Times in 200 Posts
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

Wow.....that is a terrible looking mess of parts......

From what I see...it appears to be a major failure without a spun bearing or anything related to friction in the rods or crank.

Difficult to determine what broke first as most of it is collateral damage after the initial part failure....

Is it possible there was contact with something you overlooked at very high rpm? Like a rod hitting the cam or the block somewhere......it would easily explain the abrupt failure of the rod or rod bolt .......

Something either flat broke or something was hitting something and caused the breakage......

The parts don't look to be poor at all...... even the rods look fine and the bolts appear to be decent...maybe std material, and they are usually pretty fair.....

Anytime I have an event like that I get rid of the busted up stuff as quickly as possible.....I have this thing about blown up parts....I don't want their bad Karma to attach itself to any new parts I get.......SCRAP that mess ASAP......Learn what you can from it and JUNK that stuff......LOL
__________________
Rich Biebel
S/C 1479
Rich Biebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 04:26 PM   #22
Alan Roehrich
VIP Member
 
Alan Roehrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Murfreesboro TN
Posts: 4,904
Likes: 984
Liked 1,016 Times in 264 Posts
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

The pistons are not heavy, neither are the rods. You should try my stuff. And we go through the lights at over 7800 RPM.

STOP building another engine until you KNOW what went wrong. Trust me on this, I've been there. In your rush to get back to the track you will learn nothing, and spend thousands. I know, I did it. What you are going to do if you keep rushing is waste a year you could be learning, and put yourself 1-3 years behind. You will not catch up easily. Stock Eliminator is different than anything you've done.
__________________
Alan Roehrich
212A G/S
Alan Roehrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 04:58 PM   #23
Rich Biebel
VIP Member
 
Rich Biebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs
Posts: 2,273
Likes: 25
Liked 510 Times in 200 Posts
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

6.1 Hemi.....= 370 cubes....What is the bore and stroke.....What is the main diameter and rod diameter....what is the rod length.....

4.055 3.580 370 8 6.200 12.6-1

Pretty straight forward looking engine specs.....not unlike a small block chev...with lots of compression.......Not your average street cars compression ratio!

Piston appears to be a Semi Hemi design...not a true Hemi.....

What is the cam lift......

385 370 .0135AB Dome .137 14.8cc 2100/1600 584/552 Beehive .039

Killer valve sizes and cam lifts.....easy to see why it runs as fast as it does....

What do the heads look like.....what is the intake and exahust port CC's and what do the heads flow.....port shapes? All this stuff says a lot about the usable rpm range of the engine.

If the heads are even reasonably decent.....it makes a lot of power.....and obviously they are from the numbers run by others.....


Doug Duell and Irv Johns have run some 9.80's at what weight?

370 cubes is pretty small to be running 9.80's at 132-133? I am guessing they are spinning them pretty hard to run those kinds of numbers....so my educated guesswork says lots of RPM might be normal for one of these.....
__________________
Rich Biebel
S/C 1479

Last edited by Rich Biebel; 04-04-2010 at 05:35 PM.
Rich Biebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:41 PM   #24
LSP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

What does the #3 cylinder wall look like? - any marking or scoring?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:41 PM   #25
Chris "drooze" Wertman
VIP Member
 
Chris "drooze" Wertman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Barberton Ohio
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

Rich Biebel;--6.1 Hemi.....= 374 cubes....What is the bore and stroke.....What is the main diameter and rod diameter....what is the rod length.....

4.055 3.580 370 8 6.200 12.6-1

Piston appears to be a Semi Hemi design...not a true Hemi.....

Correct

What is the cam lift......

385 370 .0135AB Dome .137 14.8cc 2100/1600 584/552 Beehive .039

What do the heads look like.....what is the intake and exahust port CC's and what do the heads flow.....port shapes? All this stuff says a lot about the usable rpm range of the engine.


They flow about 300in 200ex @600 on a stock SRT8 head....I dono the DP head but there is no port difference only valve size on in 2.100 instead of 2.08

Com cc about 79, dont recall ports at moment...

I can look some of this stuff up on the NHRA Engine blueprint guide specs.....but I thought you could tell me some of this stuff.....

Doug Duell and Irv Johns have run some 9.80's at what weight?

Not really sure, rumors only other than unsanctioned runs and weights but that was shared in confidence and I keep that above all else....

Well its above 3270 ship+driver and I believe we are the lightest by about 40-50 lbs of any of the DP's but....well...we spent a lot of time doing that , and things like 8.75 and 904 vd dana and protrans...

Just interested in knowing some of the particulars on one of these engines for comparison to others.......

374 cubes is pretty small to be running 9.80's at 132-133? I am guessing they are spinning them pretty hard to run those kinds of numbers....so my educated guesswork says lots of RPM might be normal for one of these.....

There isnt a DP person running I have heard of spinning one UNDER 8k in a run of competition.....maybe there are and if they want to speak up....hey....lol....but everyone I know is turning it that and FASTER !
__________________
Chris "Drooze" Wertman 3132 (F/SA 2009 Challenger Drag Pak #24 with a best of 10.59)
Chris "drooze" Wertman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:48 PM   #26
Chris "drooze" Wertman
VIP Member
 
Chris "drooze" Wertman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Barberton Ohio
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSP View Post
What does the #3 cylinder wall look like? - any marking or scoring?
Some where the rings mashed when the wrist pin was ripped out, but other than that no worse than the rest from parts of the wrist pin shrapnel rubbing up and down.
__________________
Chris "Drooze" Wertman 3132 (F/SA 2009 Challenger Drag Pak #24 with a best of 10.59)
Chris "drooze" Wertman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:59 PM   #27
LSP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

What kind of piston pin lock was used? Hard to tell, looks like a wire lock? - Looking at the piston close up shots, there might be a possibilty that the near side piston pin lock came out - look at the near pin bore, looks in good shape, the far side looks like it was holding on for dear life as the pin was creeping out and finally let go, some of the piston damage is after that happened.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 06:02 PM   #28
Chris "drooze" Wertman
VIP Member
 
Chris "drooze" Wertman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Barberton Ohio
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSP View Post
What kind of piston pin lock was used? Hard to tell, looks like a wire lock? - Looking at the piston close up shots, there might be a possibilty that the near side piston pin lock came out - look at the near pin bore, looks in good shape, the far side looks like it was holding on for dear life as the pin was creeping out and finally let go, some of the piston damage is after that happened.
Correct and I would agree, just dont think that happened until the rod went down and thing hit the "rod chipper" ,wire lock as well correct.
__________________
Chris "Drooze" Wertman 3132 (F/SA 2009 Challenger Drag Pak #24 with a best of 10.59)
Chris "drooze" Wertman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 06:05 PM   #29
LSP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

Well, that 1 pin bore is not going to hold that piston, is the #3 exhaust valve bent?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 06:13 PM   #30
Chris "drooze" Wertman
VIP Member
 
Chris "drooze" Wertman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Barberton Ohio
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: DP #24 Engine failure....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich View Post
The pistons are not heavy, neither are the rods. You should try my stuff. And we go through the lights at over 7800 RPM.

STOP building another engine until you KNOW what went wrong. Trust me on this, I've been there. In your rush to get back to the track you will learn nothing, and spend thousands. I know, I did it. What you are going to do if you keep rushing is waste a year you could be learning, and put yourself 1-3 years behind. You will not catch up easily. Stock Eliminator is different than anything you've done.
Alan, thanks for the advice and under "normal" circumstances or if it was one of my camera's or a bike of mine alone I would wait.

BUT in our case time is not an option, its something neither me or my father are promised tommorow. We tend to learn on our feet.

And thanks to the directions, and advice here on CR and from people met here on CR alone (we me and the old man are kinda recluses because well we are busy) well....we do know what went wrong, the rod bolts failed. AND now we have a solution thanks to the "DP Confederation" as it were, Someone called and said someone just found an off the shelf answer from another brand L19 220kpsi...should be sufficient So I called them and they told me I checked Summit and Voila in stock...so tommorow a grueling 15 minute trip to Summit .... I will have to recheck the rod clearances as the spec is tighter on them and Im afraid of the crush, 63 vs 89 lbs torque....(and no thats not what Im going to install them by but) its enough of a baseline it could change my clearances possibly.

We work in parrelel tasks always me an the old man and were good at it togehter.....

Thats how we put the DP together in as short a time as we did, nothing painted in a corner everything happening at the same time.

AND we learn by doing, and failing and doing again, until we get it "right" we both him and I have a BAD habbit of losing interest at that point when we hit "top of the game" Thats what we both like and keeps us interested in racing of one form or another we have no illusion we will ever be the top of the chain.

We enjoy all of it, litterally all of it, we find ways to find enjoyment even in failure.

And were both too stupid to quit even when we should......so well do as we can and the cards have been dealt, well plug away with the determination it takes.

We learn by doing I guess is my point and we dont have the luxury because of circumstances to approach it in a ..... slower ? fashion, lest we may not have the chance at all.
__________________
Chris "Drooze" Wertman 3132 (F/SA 2009 Challenger Drag Pak #24 with a best of 10.59)
Chris "drooze" Wertman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.