Intuitive shock settings

[joespanova]

Occasionally , I'll get to a track where the slicks "basketball" bad at the hit , so I loosen the shocks ( rear ) some and it goes away.....what is that telling me?
Is it better to have the shocks tight or loose on a good sticky track.............and BTW , I would think the car would work well on a sticky track with tight shock settings...........so if its "basket balling , shaking , bouncing" whatever you call it........how's the track? Bite or biteless?
Ladder bars , mono leafs.
9.30s@143...... 377 5 speed.

[Mike Mans]

On a really well-prepped surface, the tighter the shock settings that you can get away with - the faster it will be. Less wasted motion in the suspension and more forward progress.

Working with a 5-speed can be quite a bit different from an automatic if you're always trying to build up a little wheel-speed too. If you're going into a shake of sorts, I would actually recommend trying to tighten the shocks a little and raise some leave RPM to put more power down and try to maintain wheel speed more consistently for the first 10'+.

If you're trying to dead-hook it and slip the clutch more, then yes - you can loosen the shock a little bit and let it try to plant the tire harder and keep it driven into the track surface with a bit more force.

Best of luck - Mike

[Mike Pearson]

Have someone video the car launch to see if the suspension is bouncing or the tire. You might have too much tire pressure causing the bounce. Good track tight shocks bad track loose.
What kind of shocks are you running front and back?

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

Have someone video the car launch to see if the suspension is bouncing or the tire. You might have too much tire pressure causing the bounce. Good track tight shocks bad track loose.
What kind of shocks are you running front and back?

Thanks for the replies.
Afco double adjustables ( with what they call Big Gun valving ). Sorry , not Santhuffs.
I just raised the ride height one hole on the floaters.......now the ladder bar is higher in the front and I get more separation , so I have to rethink the shocks........I did video and saw some things wrong.....which brings up another question.....if you LOWER the car you effectively put more "squat" in it.........which LOWERS the front of the bars ( because I have to raise the rear end on the floaters )....which I would assume plants the tires more...........OR , I can raise the ride height which RAISES the front of the bar "planting " the tires , also. I 'm not sure which is the best ( quickest) approach. Each direction requires different extension settings , apparently. Thoughts on that?

[Darrel Goheen]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

On a really well-prepped surface, the tighter the shock settings that you can get away with - the faster it will be.

Hi Mike, with double adjustable shocks do you just loosen and tighten the compression or do you adjust both compression and extension? Thanks.

[Adger Smith]

When I was running a Stick the sidewall of the tire was always the first place that showed improvement in funny tire issues. Sidewalls could be tired, too..

[Mike Mans]

Originally Posted by joespanova

Thanks for the replies.
Afco double adjustables ( with what they call Big Gun valving ). Sorry , not Santhuffs.
I just raised the ride height one hole on the floaters.......now the ladder bar is higher in the front and I get more separation , so I have to rethink the shocks........I did video and saw some things wrong.....which brings up another question.....if you LOWER the car you effectively put more "squat" in it.........which LOWERS the front of the bars ( because I have to raise the rear end on the floaters )....which I would assume plants the tires more...........OR , I can raise the ride height which RAISES the front of the bar "planting " the tires , also. I 'm not sure which is the best ( quickest) approach. Each direction requires different extension settings , apparently. Thoughts on that?

Big Gun valving is very aggressive, so those shocks have the inherent ability to get VERY tight. Your alteration in ride height changes a lot of things as you're finding out. Your effective "instant center" rises up significantly, which will alter how hard you hit the tire and it's a bit more aggressive from what I've experienced. A lower instant center will apply less force to the tire at the hit, but maintain a little more force to the tire for the duration of the run. If you feel that you need to hit the tire harder, a higher IC (or higher ride height in the instance of a ladder bar car) will assist in doing that. But if you're trying to not crush the tire and separate so much, you can counter that move with a much tighter extension setting on the shock.

I can't say that there is a strict right or wrong setting, it's really whatever works best with the application and combination you're working with. MOST big tire stick cars really seem to work well when they get the back of the car to squat instead of separate - so if it were me working with your car that's what I would work towards. Tighten shock in extension, and loosen it in compression.

[Mike Mans]

Originally Posted by Darrel Goheen

Hi Mike, with double adjustable shocks do you just loosen and tighten the compression or do you adjust both compression and extension? Thanks.

If you're on a really **** track, loosen the shock on both settings. Obviously the biggest impact will be the front shock in this scenario with an automatic transmission car. Poor starting line, get the front shock as loose as you can (in extension) and shift weight as far back - and sometimes even as high as you can to help plant and pitch rotate.

Loosening the extension on the rear shocks will help hit the tire harder into the track surface, and if your front shocks are loose enough and you've got enough weight in the back - you should be able to get it rolling.

On a good track, keeping weight low and to the middle or forward on the car will always be the fastest. But on bad tracks - you've gotta do what you've gotta do...

[joespanova]

Thanks Mike.
I've experienced all those scenerios too........
Before I lower the ride height back down I'll try just stiffening the rear shocks to find the fine line between too much separation and rattling the tires.
Whats complicated this is that I changed to new springs last year ( more rate ) as the old orginals had been in there since early nineties and were just junkyard springs when I installed back then. The new springs just naturally changed the ride height so to get the car back down I had to use the lowest holes on the floaters which in turn lowered the I.C. and so on............so I raised the car UP 1 hole and now the front of the bar is higher ( higher I.C. ). Just to see how the car would react. The problem arises where / when I want to limit the seperation with stiffer extension , potentially inducing the "basketballing " effect.
Seperation is typically not an issue with the low I.C. and it seems to me the best tuning "window" will be with the lower ride height / lower I.C.

[Darrel Goheen]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

If you're on a really **** track, loosen the shock on both settings. Obviously the biggest impact will be the front shock in this scenario with an automatic transmission car. Poor starting line, get the front shock as loose as you can (in extension) and shift weight as far back - and sometimes even as high as you can to help plant and pitch rotate.

Loosening the extension on the rear shocks will help hit the tire harder into the track surface, and if your front shocks are loose enough and you've got enough weight in the back - you should be able to get it rolling.

On a good track, keeping weight low and to the middle or forward on the car will always be the fastest. But on bad tracks - you've gotta do what you've gotta do...

Thanks Mike. My fronts were on the loosest setting when I got it and I haven't changed it. I think I have the DA QA1 rears at 4 on compression and 5 on extension. I appreciate your help.