Class win - Page 10

Bill Koski · 12-30-2009, 12:43 PM

Let's cut the number of classes down to bare bones.
Then you either spend a ton of money to win class and have any chance to survive in eliminations because of the heads-up races there will be or be an also-ran or quit.
At that point some of the same people wailing about all of the classes there are now will be campaigning for no heads-up runs in eliminations because they either don't have the funds to become competitive or they are sensible enough not to invest them because of the neglible return on investment!

art leong · 12-30-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Ok Art you got me there. I did my math and come up with 44 classes in 1969
and it looks like 51 today. I forgot that EFI as well as some other classes must have been combined.

My brain was thinking there was more......

I am not a Stock racer anymore and never have been a devout member of that fraternity. I like Stock....I like Super Stock.....always have always will but I also like racing in general and have participated in most all the categories.

My opinion is just that, my opinion. Nothing more and nothing less. I would like to see better racing and not bye runs. When I am at a Lucas type race I always watch Stock and Super Stock some even though I don't race either class. They run Class at a few races and it is still very cool to see when there is a real good race. I even have a class winner plaque from the Dutch in 2006 or 2007. It was awarded to the car who went the fastest. I did not feel I earned it as I did not race anyone and probably would not have won it if we raced for it and others set up their car on kill........I built that car to try and rekindle my desire to run the class....it didn't work for me so I sold it.......

Rich In the seventies when stock as we know it was broght back they were 50 classes A though Z (no S stock) both stick and automatics. At the time you had to win class to get to race on race day no qualifiers. If you lost class you went home.
What you are proposing would kill car counts, so I doubt if NHRA would entertain the idea.
It would also raise the cost of racing in general. Plus, how long do you think it would be till someone entered 2 cars in the same class. To get this supposed increase in class win money?
Right now those that want to can build a fast car and enjoy it, or build a slower car and enjoy it. Singles have nothing at all to do with spectator appeal.
Back in the 90's I ran a low class stocker. Someone bought a car that could run my class. The driver thought it would be more fun to run someone than to to have a single. I had to turn the wick up. Went 1.37 under to assure the win. To me I would rather have us both run a single. (they run you with other cars). And still had bragging rights. There was no feeling of achievment to me (I was getting horsepower anyway so the run didn't matter)

buzzinhalfdozen · 12-30-2009, 01:00 PM

Dick I do agree with most of your post however for the most part these days the word "work" stands for spending large amounts of money. Lets face it for any combo to be "fast" these days you need the latest "trick" parts of the week which equals $. In years gone by there just weren't that many trick parts to buy, so most of the gains were due to the racer working on his combo, now they mostly scratch off a check. So we're back to how deep are our pockets, and how much are we willing to spend?IMO. Joe

art leong · 12-30-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzinhalfdozen

Dick I do agree with most of your post however for the most part these days the word "work" stands for spending large amounts of money. Lets face it for any combo to be "fast" these days you need the latest "trick" parts of the week which equals $. In years gone by there just weren't that many trick parts to buy, so most of the gains were due to the racer working on his combo, now they mostly scratch off a check. So we're back to how deep are our pockets, and how much are we willing to spend?IMO. Joe

Exactly

treessavoy · 12-30-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

To many classes Jim and to many cars making bye runs for a class trophy.
Why can't you get the message? I am pushing for more headsup runs not less......More cars in a class means more heads up runs, fewer winners and those that win deserve the awards.....LIKE it was 40 years ago!

NHRA decided to seperate FI cars from carbureted cars for a few years. Now they are combined again. They could do the same thing with other classes. Some people would be hurt, some people would be helped.......Thats the nature of the category!

My view is real simple......All of the classes are based on arbitrary HP to weight figures and just look at today as an example. New cars with rediculously low HP ratings and NHRA accepts this......What Stocker from the muscle car era could ever hope to run with cars that are going 140 mph....None is the answer and some just got more HP........

Stock Class racing is a far cry from 40 years ago...not even close!

Either make it reasonably fair or make it a purely bracket format and drop the sham of Class racing.....

Rich,

If the problem is too many classes then what changes would you make to lessen the number of classes? How could you do it without making so many cars useless forcing people to quit because their car doesn't fit anywhere?

How about this: do away with required factory weights and keep the posted Hp but allow the cars to be whatever weight the owner wants, then have the NHRA cut the classes to 1lb weight per class.

That way I could take my Max wedge, add 500lbs and race in J/SA or take out 300lbs and race AA/SA; as long as your car met the weight and Hp requirements for the class you declare you would be legal. This would cut the number of classes in half and racers could run the car they like, not one dictated by factory weight/Hp breaks.

JimR

Jack McCarthy · 12-30-2009, 02:15 PM

how about one simple rule changed back fixes it all...

class winners are the ONLY cars to make the eliminator (or maybe fill to JUST 48 or 64 with qualifiers to eliminate byes in eliminator)...then you would see NO singles and you'd see new cars built for every class... and class should be run when people are there to see the heads up win or go home runs... like the old days > oh yeah tear down all class winners and let the tech guys do thier job.

with the demise of the class winner then the qualifiers make the fields rule NO ONE will ever build a slow car again.

i run U/SA and have often been a solo (albiet can always qualify) why should i get screwed because the other 12 cars (according to nitro joe) chose not to come race me ?

captain jack

Michael Beard · 12-30-2009, 02:29 PM

If you have to run -.80 under the old indexes to win Class, maybe you should only advance in regular eliminations if you have better than a .100 package. :rollseyes: Equally ridiculous.

treessavoy · 12-31-2009, 12:52 AM

This is for you old guys in Div 1. Way back in the day Atco was a NASCAR sanctioned strip and had twice as many classes as the NHRA but if I remember correctly their rule was, if you ran under consistently under for your class they moved you up to the next class.
Am I remembering this right or have those brain cells just died like the rest of them.

Anybody remember?

JimR

Rich Biebel · 12-31-2009, 07:57 AM

Yes Atco was once Nascar santioned. I raced there as well in about 1966 or 1967. Local tracks all did things kind of the way they wanted back then. I don't doubt what you recall as being true about all the different classes.... I recall having a conversation with a guy one night at Atco and he was asking me a lot of questions about our 57 sedan delivery.
It was John Achambeault who soon after had one of his own as everyone knows....

Island was my home track. They ran NHRA rules but also did things the way they wanted. They ran Cups or Bucks and so did some other tracks, I think. You could race for just a trophy (cups) or you could race bucks and if you won your class in bucks you got a trophy or some money and then went into Jr.Stock eliminator....We ran 2 seperate eliminators. A-J was Stock 1 and the rest in Stock 2......

Atco had a lot of tough cars racing there and so did Island and we had some special Jr.Stock events that paid big bucks.....we won one right after Indy in 1966 or 1967.......under protest by of all people "Archie"

X-TECH MAN · 12-31-2009, 09:10 AM

I remember that the protested car made bye runs by itself in the early 60's at Capitol, Aquasco, 75-80 etc. in Maryland. until there was only one other car left then they would run off for the bucks. If the protested car won then it would be torn down. If not then all was a done deal. I think sometimes it was a sham so the protested car would be in the final....lol.

12-30-2009, 12:43 PM	#91
Bill Koski Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 213 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Class win Let's cut the number of classes down to bare bones. Then you either spend a ton of money to win class and have any chance to survive in eliminations because of the heads-up races there will be or be an also-ran or quit. At that point some of the same people wailing about all of the classes there are now will be campaigning for no heads-up runs in eliminations because they either don't have the funds to become competitive or they are sensible enough not to invest them because of the neglible return on investment!

12-30-2009, 01:00 PM	#93
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 985 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Class win Dick I do agree with most of your post however for the most part these days the word "work" stands for spending large amounts of money. Lets face it for any combo to be "fast" these days you need the latest "trick" parts of the week which equals $. In years gone by there just weren't that many trick parts to buy, so most of the gains were due to the racer working on his combo, now they mostly scratch off a check. So we're back to how deep are our pockets, and how much are we willing to spend?IMO. Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

12-30-2009, 02:15 PM	#96
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,284 Likes: 22 Liked 352 Times in 92 Posts	Re: Class win how about one simple rule changed back fixes it all... class winners are the ONLY cars to make the eliminator (or maybe fill to JUST 48 or 64 with qualifiers to eliminate byes in eliminator)...then you would see NO singles and you'd see new cars built for every class... and class should be run when people are there to see the heads up win or go home runs... like the old days > oh yeah tear down all class winners and let the tech guys do thier job. with the demise of the class winner then the qualifiers make the fields rule NO ONE will ever build a slow car again. i run U/SA and have often been a solo (albiet can always qualify) why should i get screwed because the other 12 cars (according to nitro joe) chose not to come race me ? captain jack __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

12-30-2009, 02:29 PM	#97
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Class win If you have to run -.80 under the old indexes to win Class, maybe you should only advance in regular eliminations if you have better than a .100 package. :rollseyes: Equally ridiculous. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

12-31-2009, 12:52 AM	#98
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Class win This is for you old guys in Div 1. Way back in the day Atco was a NASCAR sanctioned strip and had twice as many classes as the NHRA but if I remember correctly their rule was, if you ran under consistently under for your class they moved you up to the next class. Am I remembering this right or have those brain cells just died like the rest of them. Anybody remember? JimR __________________ Jim Rountree

12-31-2009, 07:57 AM	#99
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,275 Likes: 25 Liked 510 Times in 200 Posts	Re: Class win Yes Atco was once Nascar santioned. I raced there as well in about 1966 or 1967. Local tracks all did things kind of the way they wanted back then. I don't doubt what you recall as being true about all the different classes.... I recall having a conversation with a guy one night at Atco and he was asking me a lot of questions about our 57 sedan delivery. It was John Achambeault who soon after had one of his own as everyone knows.... Island was my home track. They ran NHRA rules but also did things the way they wanted. They ran Cups or Bucks and so did some other tracks, I think. You could race for just a trophy (cups) or you could race bucks and if you won your class in bucks you got a trophy or some money and then went into Jr.Stock eliminator....We ran 2 seperate eliminators. A-J was Stock 1 and the rest in Stock 2...... Atco had a lot of tough cars racing there and so did Island and we had some special Jr.Stock events that paid big bucks.....we won one right after Indy in 1966 or 1967.......under protest by of all people "Archie" __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479

12-31-2009, 09:10 AM	#100
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,207 Likes: 1,049 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Class win I remember that the protested car made bye runs by itself in the early 60's at Capitol, Aquasco, 75-80 etc. in Maryland. until there was only one other car left then they would run off for the bucks. If the protested car won then it would be torn down. If not then all was a done deal. I think sometimes it was a sham so the protested car would be in the final....lol.