Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock - Page 2

Frank Castros · 07-04-2017, 09:21 AM

My 2 cents.
The N.H.R.A. is clueless on many levels.
Pro Stock was relevant from 1970 until 2000, but now has little appeal.
Factory Stock is the future because these are cars you can purchase at any dealership.

Paradigm Shift · 07-04-2017, 09:44 AM

If there is to be any hope, even a glimmer, that the interest in the new performance vehicles vis-a-vis Factory Stock exists, then a concerted and significant effort must be undertaken by the three manufacturers that promotes awareness, recognition, interest and ultimately, demand for this spectrum of motorsports.

Reintroduce the dealership Performance Clinics that were reasonably popular years ago and that made the effort to connect factory available high performance vehicles with drag racing and illustrated well-engineered and established methods of relatively easily improving each platforms performance. Cultivate and nurture the performance car/drag racing association by brand.

It will require a great deal of effort, one that I'm not certain any manufacturer, regardless of how significant their efforts to market these car appear, will exert.

Finally, give away Divisional event tickets. Create decals, posters, apparel and create enthusiasm. Build brand allegiance and restore a healthy competition against competing brands.

Encourage potential customers to see their performance vehicle of choice in action and build a bond between owner, car and drag racing motorsports.

Keep in mind, it's a different era.

House of Darts · 07-04-2017, 10:07 AM

It is very interesting that this article is brought to the forefront in the S/SS section. Ever watch the stands at a divisional meet or national event when S/SS race? For the divisional which speaks with more clarity than a national event,. some wives and girl fiends, volunteer pit helpers an friends are the only ones in the stands.Do you see all the double stackers that show up for S/SS? Pretty crazy for the lousy payouts. A FS car ain't cheap. Do you think that the FS cars becoming Pro/FS will help the sportsman racer? Isn't racing supposed to be a show? Horse, bike and all the various permutations of all motors ports is about the fans coming out to see racers race.If you pull the FS and AH cars out, what does S/SS have to show? To work on your car and get it in the trailer, get to the event and spend 1-4 days at an event that doesn't draw enough spectators that out number the number of people in the pits is that death bell. Someone here, started to do something. Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars. The father stopped to talk to me and I could see his 9 year old son looking apprehensive at what was going on to the pits. I walked up to the boy and asked him if he wanted a close up look at my car. Before he knew what happened, he was in the car with the helmet on and his dad was taking pics. They kept coming back after each round just to talk. This class racing isn't going to last unless we as racers, promote the sport ourselves. Don't look to NHRA to do anything constructive. If a bunch of reckless street racers can gain national attention, what will it take to get sportsman racers to do the same thing(popularity)? Is NMCA the answer? Ground roots class racer wave? Save the sport. Racer independence. Patriotic?

Paradigm Shift · 07-04-2017, 10:26 AM

Quote:

"I have felt for some time that NHRA could make PS more realistic and bridge the gap between the current Pro Stock and Super Stock by:

* make the car bodies have the same dimensions as factory production cars.
* Super Stock legal tires.
* The engine would be based on the same architecture as production engines but the racers could poke and stroke them to a certain max cu.in.
* a Limit on supercharger specs ( larger of course than the current SS blowers)

Basically it would be an enhanced version of Super Stock very much like it was in 1970"

Not a chance that any of these arcane suggestions would have a positive impact on either appeal or attendance.

There is virtually no one among the average NHRA fan base that would have any interest in, and in many cases, any knowledge of, the technical merits associated with these suggested limitations and the resultant competition parameters.

These intrinsic and esoteric proposals are certainly at odds with what is on display at each NHRA event. As routinely mentioned, look at the stands and realistically comprehend who attends events to watch these rules confined and clearly weaker performing eliminators.

Quote:

Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars.

You have to get people there. The effort to create enthusiasm and interest must be created externally and then develop intrinsically.

Class racing will last. No one outside of racers cares anything about it nor have they for decades. The racers will continue to show up, entertain and enjoy themselves and spend a great deal of money that is certainly necessary for event operating costs. That is, unless the sanction can convince and consistently rely upon a group of 60-100 11.90 cars to attend and then Stock is over with.

Stephen Bell · 07-04-2017, 11:25 AM

Certianly all valid points.... Here are a few more things to think about:
The factory cars seem to have a little traction with the fans, manufacturers, and NHRA but the direction is uncertain. What is it that will make the direction clear? There needs to be several changes that will help. I would park all of the cars together, similar to how the the Copo's are parked at Indy. The performance is an issue. The cars need to run in the 7's@170. They can easily do this with reducing the weight to 3,400 lbs and allowing a 10.5 inch tire(I know there goes the stock class). The tire will easily fit under the wheel well of the second generation Copo's and CJ's. Selling a 7 second 170 mph factory production car should be the foundation of the marketing. These cars need to have their own class. Throwing the cars that don't qualify back into stock eliminator doesn't make anyone happy. They need to qualify separately, it's difficult to be the first ones down the track Thursday morning and set the field by noon, then wait until 3:00 Saturday to race first round. I would not change the body or engine rules at all. There are several back halved factory cars that have run in the 7.70/7.80 range that don't get much attention. The backhalved cars look more like race cars then factory cars. I bet that all parties involved come up with a plan that will work better than what exists. It will look something like pro mod, pro stock, pro stock bike, nitro Harley, factory cars, etc rotating a smaller 8-12 race schedule at different national events. As for "rich people" coming into the factory class and ruining it, I don't understand that? It's already plenty expensive and there are plenty of smart people involved. Think about the fact that Barton, Holbrook, Patterson/Elite, Stanfield and more are already involved! I hope the class becomes relevant and I will do everything I can to support it. Just my two cents.....

Happy July 4th!
S.Bell

Jeff Teuton · 07-04-2017, 12:21 PM

The old Top Stock rules would work here as they did then. Time trials 2 or Friday, 1 Sat Morn and eliminations Sat till complete. All run, and fast loser comes back on a bye. There are no byes unless first round has one. 10.5 tires. It was a lot of fun and had good spectator attention. Pro Tree (.5) An extra day for rain or certification.

Dissident · 07-04-2017, 03:10 PM

Indeed times are changing and it was said in this thread that NHRA was without clues as to what was going on.....Pretty good assessment.

The issue of Factory Stock is a potential flagship for the factories not for NHRA's edification. The factories are aiming at the folks in the stands, not the NHRA leadership. Remember the NHRA is a not for profit organization and they are only interested in perpetuation of their incomes not revitalizing the sport or venue. That is obvious by the way they treat the Sportsmen Racers as fill-in for rebuild time for Top Fuel and Fuel Funny Car.

Do not be surprised that sometime in the future, some outfit such as SEMA (also a non for profit organization) taking a run at NHRA as they at least see the importance of the aftermarket's survival. And that is not from the sale of parts for Top Fuel or Funny Cars. Their membership is comprised of the folks that manufacture and sell parts to the masses.
Note the parts on Factory Stock vehicles.....pretty clear to me.

By the way, FS should be its own eliminator so they can shine without overwhelming the real stock eliminator guys.

Ok then. Enjoyable rant over. Happy USA birthday and enjoy the day!

Regards to All - Dissident

barnca2010 · 07-04-2017, 03:19 PM

Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars.

That was actually me and my whole team at WHEELZ UP RADIO who brought the kids to New England Dragway for the Divisional.. We are doing it again this year. And we are also doing a Car Show the Thursday prior to the divisional at NED.. The Show will be on the grounds of the State House in Concord NH about 45 min from the track.. The kids had a great tie and we are super excited to bring them back this year for the 3rd Annual CARZ 4 KIDZ at NED Presented by Lucas Oil Products. So be sure to keep an eye open for us. And if you would like to show your race car off.. Let me know.

Thanks
Chris Barnes

Rick Kolber · 07-04-2017, 03:42 PM

I find it interesting that pro stock seems to be the only class that seems to have a problem (low car count, even sportsman classes). It seems to me both fuel classes seem to have the same problem but nothing is being done about those( need 1/4 mile races like in Australia, if need be cut the performance level). I know this is a s/ss forum so I will not get into it but the whole NHRA needs to be restructured to benefit NHRA, the fans, and the racers! Will that happen, I doubt it.

Geoff Turk · 07-04-2017, 07:05 PM

As a guy trying to compete in Factory Stock, it is cool to see the support and interest. I like many of Asher's thoughts / ideas but I'm not sure it has to be one or the other with Pro or Factory Stock just yet... or maybe ever.

I think both classes have real merit and both could use some changes to improve the experience of the fans and make them more racer friendly.

I like many of Mr. Bell's ideas also but as currently the only Dodge Challenger, getting down to 3,400 lbs would mean a lot less donuts for me (no more donuts, and that AL block, I might make 3,450), so not sure about that part

but the 10.5" tires fit just fine, ran them in SS last year. I strongly agree that when we don't qualify, we go home, not invade stock. A 16 car field would be nice and would add just one round.

Mr. Teuton's and other's ideas on scheduling would definitely help for racer's trying to sort these running on the edge FS/XX combos out and make it more fan friendly for those who wanted to watch them.

It will definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out. Very glad to be having fun and for now, lucky and blessed to be able to be a part of it in this great country... Happy Birthday USA and Happy 4th to all.

07-04-2017, 09:21 AM	#11
Frank Castros VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Lowcountry. Posts: 2,641 Likes: 2,154 Liked 2,082 Times in 769 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock My 2 cents. The N.H.R.A. is clueless on many levels. Pro Stock was relevant from 1970 until 2000, but now has little appeal. Factory Stock is the future because these are cars you can purchase at any dealership.

07-04-2017, 09:44 AM	#12
Paradigm Shift Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143 Likes: 3 Liked 80 Times in 29 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock If there is to be any hope, even a glimmer, that the interest in the new performance vehicles vis-a-vis Factory Stock exists, then a concerted and significant effort must be undertaken by the three manufacturers that promotes awareness, recognition, interest and ultimately, demand for this spectrum of motorsports. Reintroduce the dealership Performance Clinics that were reasonably popular years ago and that made the effort to connect factory available high performance vehicles with drag racing and illustrated well-engineered and established methods of relatively easily improving each platforms performance. Cultivate and nurture the performance car/drag racing association by brand. It will require a great deal of effort, one that I'm not certain any manufacturer, regardless of how significant their efforts to market these car appear, will exert. Finally, give away Divisional event tickets. Create decals, posters, apparel and create enthusiasm. Build brand allegiance and restore a healthy competition against competing brands. Encourage potential customers to see their performance vehicle of choice in action and build a bond between owner, car and drag racing motorsports. Keep in mind, it's a different era. Last edited by Paradigm Shift; 07-04-2017 at 11:01 AM.

07-04-2017, 10:07 AM	#13
House of Darts Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 346 Likes: 19 Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock It is very interesting that this article is brought to the forefront in the S/SS section. Ever watch the stands at a divisional meet or national event when S/SS race? For the divisional which speaks with more clarity than a national event,. some wives and girl fiends, volunteer pit helpers an friends are the only ones in the stands.Do you see all the double stackers that show up for S/SS? Pretty crazy for the lousy payouts. A FS car ain't cheap. Do you think that the FS cars becoming Pro/FS will help the sportsman racer? Isn't racing supposed to be a show? Horse, bike and all the various permutations of all motors ports is about the fans coming out to see racers race.If you pull the FS and AH cars out, what does S/SS have to show? To work on your car and get it in the trailer, get to the event and spend 1-4 days at an event that doesn't draw enough spectators that out number the number of people in the pits is that death bell. Someone here, started to do something. Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars. The father stopped to talk to me and I could see his 9 year old son looking apprehensive at what was going on to the pits. I walked up to the boy and asked him if he wanted a close up look at my car. Before he knew what happened, he was in the car with the helmet on and his dad was taking pics. They kept coming back after each round just to talk. This class racing isn't going to last unless we as racers, promote the sport ourselves. Don't look to NHRA to do anything constructive. If a bunch of reckless street racers can gain national attention, what will it take to get sportsman racers to do the same thing(popularity)? Is NMCA the answer? Ground roots class racer wave? Save the sport. Racer independence. Patriotic?

07-04-2017, 11:25 AM	#15
Stephen Bell Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 81 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock Certianly all valid points.... Here are a few more things to think about: The factory cars seem to have a little traction with the fans, manufacturers, and NHRA but the direction is uncertain. What is it that will make the direction clear? There needs to be several changes that will help. I would park all of the cars together, similar to how the the Copo's are parked at Indy. The performance is an issue. The cars need to run in the 7's@170. They can easily do this with reducing the weight to 3,400 lbs and allowing a 10.5 inch tire(I know there goes the stock class). The tire will easily fit under the wheel well of the second generation Copo's and CJ's. Selling a 7 second 170 mph factory production car should be the foundation of the marketing. These cars need to have their own class. Throwing the cars that don't qualify back into stock eliminator doesn't make anyone happy. They need to qualify separately, it's difficult to be the first ones down the track Thursday morning and set the field by noon, then wait until 3:00 Saturday to race first round. I would not change the body or engine rules at all. There are several back halved factory cars that have run in the 7.70/7.80 range that don't get much attention. The backhalved cars look more like race cars then factory cars. I bet that all parties involved come up with a plan that will work better than what exists. It will look something like pro mod, pro stock, pro stock bike, nitro Harley, factory cars, etc rotating a smaller 8-12 race schedule at different national events. As for "rich people" coming into the factory class and ruining it, I don't understand that? It's already plenty expensive and there are plenty of smart people involved. Think about the fact that Barton, Holbrook, Patterson/Elite, Stanfield and more are already involved! I hope the class becomes relevant and I will do everything I can to support it. Just my two cents..... Happy July 4th! S.Bell

07-04-2017, 12:21 PM	#16
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 326 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock The old Top Stock rules would work here as they did then. Time trials 2 or Friday, 1 Sat Morn and eliminations Sat till complete. All run, and fast loser comes back on a bye. There are no byes unless first round has one. 10.5 tires. It was a lot of fun and had good spectator attention. Pro Tree (.5) An extra day for rain or certification. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

07-04-2017, 03:10 PM	#17
Dissident Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Colorado hills Posts: 123 Likes: 11 Liked 73 Times in 36 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock Indeed times are changing and it was said in this thread that NHRA was without clues as to what was going on.....Pretty good assessment. The issue of Factory Stock is a potential flagship for the factories not for NHRA's edification. The factories are aiming at the folks in the stands, not the NHRA leadership. Remember the NHRA is a not for profit organization and they are only interested in perpetuation of their incomes not revitalizing the sport or venue. That is obvious by the way they treat the Sportsmen Racers as fill-in for rebuild time for Top Fuel and Fuel Funny Car. Do not be surprised that sometime in the future, some outfit such as SEMA (also a non for profit organization) taking a run at NHRA as they at least see the importance of the aftermarket's survival. And that is not from the sale of parts for Top Fuel or Funny Cars. Their membership is comprised of the folks that manufacture and sell parts to the masses. Note the parts on Factory Stock vehicles.....pretty clear to me. By the way, FS should be its own eliminator so they can shine without overwhelming the real stock eliminator guys. Ok then. Enjoyable rant over. Happy USA birthday and enjoy the day! Regards to All - Dissident

07-04-2017, 03:19 PM	#18
barnca2010 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 621 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars. That was actually me and my whole team at WHEELZ UP RADIO who brought the kids to New England Dragway for the Divisional.. We are doing it again this year. And we are also doing a Car Show the Thursday prior to the divisional at NED.. The Show will be on the grounds of the State House in Concord NH about 45 min from the track.. The kids had a great tie and we are super excited to bring them back this year for the 3rd Annual CARZ 4 KIDZ at NED Presented by Lucas Oil Products. So be sure to keep an eye open for us. And if you would like to show your race car off.. Let me know. Thanks Chris Barnes __________________ I take pictures. And shoot arrows. https://www.facebook.com/WHEELZUPRADIO

07-04-2017, 03:42 PM	#19
Rick Kolber Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 98 Likes: 20 Liked 32 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock I find it interesting that pro stock seems to be the only class that seems to have a problem (low car count, even sportsman classes). It seems to me both fuel classes seem to have the same problem but nothing is being done about those( need 1/4 mile races like in Australia, if need be cut the performance level). I know this is a s/ss forum so I will not get into it but the whole NHRA needs to be restructured to benefit NHRA, the fans, and the racers! Will that happen, I doubt it.

07-04-2017, 07:05 PM	#20
Geoff Turk Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 42 Likes: 17 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock As a guy trying to compete in Factory Stock, it is cool to see the support and interest. I like many of Asher's thoughts / ideas but I'm not sure it has to be one or the other with Pro or Factory Stock just yet... or maybe ever. I think both classes have real merit and both could use some changes to improve the experience of the fans and make them more racer friendly. I like many of Mr. Bell's ideas also but as currently the only Dodge Challenger, getting down to 3,400 lbs would mean a lot less donuts for me (no more donuts, and that AL block, I might make 3,450), so not sure about that part but the 10.5" tires fit just fine, ran them in SS last year. I strongly agree that when we don't qualify, we go home, not invade stock. A 16 car field would be nice and would add just one round. Mr. Teuton's and other's ideas on scheduling would definitely help for racer's trying to sort these running on the edge FS/XX combos out and make it more fan friendly for those who wanted to watch them. It will definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out. Very glad to be having fun and for now, lucky and blessed to be able to be a part of it in this great country... Happy Birthday USA and Happy 4th to all.