Factory experimental

[bill dedman]

Rory said, "I think that any forced induction Stocker should be limited to the factory boost pressure"...

Jeff Lee said, "I believe all pressurized engines should be held to OEM specifications. "
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Where were you guys about 6 months ago, when I was beating the drum for tell-tale boost gauges on all forced induction cars because of their inordinate showing as #1 qualifiers at National events??? In the last four years, (had stats for 2004-2007 at the time) about two percent of the cars (turbo cars) had nailed down something like fifteen-percent of the #1 qualifying slots... a statistical anomaly that screams for attention.

Now that the issue is a different one, but the cause of the problem is the same, you come out with this.

Since horsepower at the flywheel is almost certainly boost-dependent, OF COURSE it needs to be monitored to factory specs, one way or another. Tell-tale boost gauges is one effective way to do it.

I still think these "new" factory race cars belong in S/S.... especially, the ones with less than 7.5 lbs/hp.

My 2-cents...

[Fred Holdorf]

Rory, Yes there were supercharged Ford's and Studebaker's in "Stock" many years ago. Larry Walker and myself at one time had to make a full pass, with a tech inspector riding along monitoring his own calibrated boost pressure gauge. We, (1957 Ford) were allowed 6# of boost @ 4800 RPM's, plus 1# of boost for every 1000 RPM's over 4800 RPM's we turned the engine. I understand Gordon Williams had to do the same with his Studebaker also. Has anything like that been done lately, or are there any boost specs on these new cars at all. Any body know?

Fred Holdorf

[GUMP]

How much HP does a 426 Hemi or 427 Chevy stocker motor make?

[Jared Jordan]

Originally Posted by GUMP

How much HP does a 426 Hemi or 427 Chevy stocker motor make?

A good Street Hemi should make somewhere in the neighborhood of 650 HP. Don't know about the 427's.

[s10stocker]

Where were you guys about 6 months ago, when I was beating the drum for tell-tale boost gauges on all forced induction cars because of their inordinate showing as #1 qualifiers at National events??? In the last four years, (had stats for 2004-2007 at the time) about two percent of the cars (turbo cars) had nailed down something like fifteen-percent of the #1 qualifying slots... a statistical anomaly that screams for attention.

Now that the issue is a different one, but the cause of the problem is the same, you come out with this.

Since horsepower at the flywheel is almost certainly boost-dependent, OF COURSE it needs to be monitored to factory specs, one way or another. Tell-tale boost gauges is one effective way to do it.

I still think these "new" factory race cars belong in S/S.... especially, the ones with less than 7.5 lbs/hp.



How about when a turbo car at a alt. track sets a record 1.58 under but wait, it can't get hit because it's a alt track. Sorry almost a year later that still bothers me.

[Bill Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by George Wright

The 2008 Cobra Jet is in the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. The shipping weight for the coupe is 3239 (7.62 X 425) and the convertible is 3324 (7.82 X 425).

George,
Thanks for looking up the numbers.
So if a 425 horse mustang goes 1.4 under it will get 3.25% Monday morning that will put it up to 440 horsepower. With only a 3239 shipping weight the hard top would end up at 3239/440= 7.36 and would no longer fit in AA it would be a natural SS/C the car is only 7 horsepower away from not fitting in stock. The convertible has a little more leeway but not much. I could see an AAA class coming awful fast!

[Bruce Noland]

An excellent 427 will make about 640 Horsepower tops.

[Michael Kilduff]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

I spoke to the Ford guys at 2008 SEMA and they are really pumped up to run their tricked out, aftermarket, 700+ HP Mustangs in Stock against our 40 year old cars. From what we have already seen from early testing, there is no doubt that they will in fact come into the AA and A Classes and kick our butts. Although the Chrysler guys were a little more subdued about their impact on these classes, it is clear that they want to dominate as well. New blood is fine, but this is way over the top.

I personally think this is an unconscionable venture between these two auto makers and nhra to wipe out the upper classes with these cars. I believe, until now, supercharged cars were not allowed to race in Stock. nhra has no idea how to tech these cars, and any tech information they get will come directly from the preferred OEM.

The new Challengers and Mustangs belong in FX classes. After Pomona it will be too late. No matter how bad it makes nhra and Ford/Chrysler look the deal will be closed and most racers will not be able to compete with these Aftermarket Super Stock cars masquerading as Stockers.

Yes, it's good that the OEM's want to play, but these cars should be placed in A/FX. They can still run the eliminator just like everybody else and, at the same time, have a showcase class to market their cars.

nhra should not be so hungry to forget or neglect it's responsibility to fairly classify these cars!

This is a good post. The new blown cars should be factory experimental.

If a mustang comes 'stock' with 700hp, what will it make tricked out? 850?

Good luck getting that to hook.

[Dick Butler]

I am afraid some are missing the writing on that wall. As always factoring will be under rated, under supervised and less efficiently performed than on the old cars currently running. Why? New cars new blood,in the race scene and news. Guys will give up beating on the 67 camaro, the darts or fords to build the " weakly factored" new stuff. This will dominate the news, the best engineered, best paint till some appropriate number are spread through out the country. THEN some one might notice a minor change in HP is needed, a boost gauge might be nice or a spec on inlet size. History just keeps repeating itself as a method of freshening up the pictures in dragster and the magazines. The 90s injection problems will look like a minor issue again.

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Rory said, "I think that any forced induction Stocker should be limited to the factory boost pressure"...

Jeff Lee said, "I believe all pressurized engines should be held to OEM specifications. "
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Where were you guys about 6 months ago, when I was beating the drum for tell-tale boost gauges on all forced induction cars because of their inordinate showing as #1 qualifiers at National events??? In the last four years, (had stats for 2004-2007 at the time) about two percent of the cars (turbo cars) had nailed down something like fifteen-percent of the #1 qualifying slots... a statistical anomaly that screams for attention.

Now that the issue is a different one, but the cause of the problem is the same, you come out with this.

Since horsepower at the flywheel is almost certainly boost-dependent, OF COURSE it needs to be monitored to factory specs, one way or another. Tell-tale boost gauges is one effective way to do it.

I still think these "new" factory race cars belong in S/S.... especially, the ones with less than 7.5 lbs/hp.

My 2-cents...

I've made mention of this issue many times over the years. It usually falls on deaf ears or the FWD brigade jumps in and then it turns into debate over what the OEM standard is (or isn't) and how boost somehow equals nothing more than blueprinting a non-pressurized engine.
The SCCA stopped the tide of MOPAR FWD cars dominating the races decades ago. They gave turbo racers pre-set, sealed & locked waste gates that were installed prior to the race ahead of the carb or injection system. I'm not sure if the waste gate was set to an OEM or SCCA standard but it took care of the issue.