A subject for discussion on a winter's day.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by FED 387

Well if you look at the Entries for all the different National races some have all or a few of the following Pro MOD/Top Sportsman/Top Dragster/Top Fuel Harley/Factory Stock Showdowns IN ADDITION TO the regular classes that have always been present in the past plus the T shirt crew parking group/ the exhibition cars and nostalgic exhibition runs ETC.--- the pit areas have generally not gotten bigger while the size of the rigs have--- such as motorhomes and stacker trailers or Semi tractor trailer combos for many racers--sure some guys still have a truck and trailer many don't ---you cant put 10 pounds into a 5 pound bag they are trying to accommodate as many racers as possible with the limited space they have thats part of the problem-----so you add it all up------many more classes---extremely large rigs and hospitality areas---- manufacturers midway -----same size pit areas as 20 years ago----how do you suggest doing it???

Every thing that you bring up is absolutely correct. It also is/has turned the pro show into a "for profit" entity in everything but name.
Is it time to re-examine Compton's idea of splitting the dog-and-pony show into the "for profit" that it has become and splitting it from the "not-for-profit" Sportsman Racers and would it be to our (Sportsman Racers) benefit?

[B Parker]

In the last several years I've seen a lot of new positions at NHRA. Not sure how many VP's they have but it seems like every few months there's another one. How about if they were to hire someone that would actually go out and promote the sportsman classes. We are one of the greatest car shows on earth. If they stay with the current model of (DO NOTHING) for us this side of the sport will eventually die.

It's sad most of us are just a bunch of Sheep. We would have a real impact if we could just come together as a group. Even the Pro's can't stick together. Just look at Pro Stock. Wait in a few years when the fuel cars can't field a full sixteen at most races. Can we say combine Top fuel and Funny car and have only one payout. A lot of us own businesses. Could you imagine treating your paying customers like this. Sorry I'm only going to let 50 in today. We don't really need you. Yah I know you helped me build this business but that was yesterday.

Almost all of the grass root NHRA workers that we see at the events are great guys and girls and do a great job. The ones at the top don't seem to really get this sport or have a consistent direction. Maybe they do. It's whoever has the biggest dollar today. But in the end you can only burn so many before it catches up to you. And I wouldn't want any of them to touch me. They seem to slowly kill off anything that doesn't fit their current agenda.
BP

[Lenny5160]

I thought the idea back then was to sell off the Pro side to DirecTV, or the founder of DirecTV. They would keep us around, since we are the cash cows.

Honestly, it wouldn't bother me to no longer race with the Pro show. I really only do it once per year because it is close, and when I'm eliminated I hit the road.

[FED 387]

Billy--The problem as I see it is if HRA splits the show to say Saturday is Sportsman racing only and Sunday would be dedicated to the "floorshow" and Pros only what is HRA going to do after you run first round of 18-24 pairs of Pros off and do the corresponding track clean up on Sunday so 2nd round you only have about 9-12 pairs of cars then another hour to hour and a half between the 2nd and third round ---then you have to 4-6 pairs for the 3 round ----then you end up with 60-90 minutes down time between each round what happens what are you going to do with all that time in between rounds while everyone rebuilds their *****??? I see your point but how can it work??? Unless you run all the Sportsman FINALS on Sunday between rounds of the Pro cars--what really messes things up is you now have Pro Mod running al of their rounds on Sunday and the "showcased" Factory Stock class running entirely also on Sunday-- Too many cars too many classes all trying to run on Sunday and some tracks have "curfews" which cuts into available track time too And I almost forgot the all important JR Dragsters and ET Finalists from somewhere that they need to "showcase too" ---FED 387

[cicero819]

Here is the problem as I see it(my two cents). I've just gotten back from the Div 2 race in Orlando. The first problem 1) no advertisement, not one red cent was spent to let potential customer that a great show is coming to town. 2) for some reason the track operator doesn't care the have enough staff to welcome you and tell you where to park.3) the track preparation was poor(when cars were going down the track you could see the glue flying of the wheels, they took too much time to resume sending cars down the track after a possible oildowns(just too slow, i saw people leaving and telling me that they couldn't stand the lack of organization) 4) sorry S/G and S/C you need to get the throttle timers out of the cars(way to complicated for the average fan) I know that you will tell me to fly a kite, but when you confuse 7/8 of the people spectating, don't ask why nobody shows up to watch).4) have the race start on Saturday not Friday, guys who work for a living can't attend either as spectators or participant, this should be a saturday and Sunday show only. 5) Allow a class for the Hondas,Toyotas,Subarus, this is what the young people are tuning, this is their Camaros and 55 Chev. You need to advertise or die, you need someone to promote the show. FUNNY CARS< DRAGSTERS RUNNING ALL WEEKENDS!!!! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! I didn't hear one single radio ad.You could have the tech and inspection done at a local shopping mall parking lot, have someone in charge of getting the words to the media(print,TV). If you don't advertise you can be sure nobody will attend.As I said my two cents.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by john ancona

Looks to me like like the splitting has already started, no tech,no tear down to speak of, lower quotas such as in 45 posted and then revised to 60 for now. Sportsmen is truly a not-for-profit already at 60. That Compton was a true visionary years ago.

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

I wonder if class at the "Little Gators" is a feeler gauge towards that split?

The indicators are there....

* Lower quotas at Nat. events
* Run class at Div. events

My prediction for the future is zero Stockers & Super Stockers at Nat. events and the Division races will be where class eliminations are ran

[Dan Bennett]

I haven't been around the races for a while but was making my living at them when all this came up. I sepnt hours and hours at the tracks and had many conversations with a lot of people close to the action - and of course it was all off the record and not to be printed or attributed.


Sportsman racing was in trouble even when Wally was still alive. Remember, then as it is now, the people in charge had business and accounting backgrounds. They were experts at looking at spreadsheets, balance sheets, and generating profit. Some probably couldn't have told a Mustang from a Camaro if the emblems were removed. But no one was openly downgrading the non-pro side of it because they knew Wally would not stand for it.


Everybody I talked to who might be in a position to know said the same thing: the proposal to split pro vs. sportsman was ONLY to make the NHRA more attractive to buyers. I'm not sure if their lawyers couldn't figure out a way to get around the non-profit thing or if it just didn't make sense to a propective buyer. Connie Kalitta, for one, said that he'd done the numbers on the deal and it just didn't pencil out.


A good point was brought up regarding filling time between rounds. The NHRA could book in some entertainment acts to fill that time. But why shell out money (that could go to salaries and bonuses) if you could get something for the fans to watch - and not just for free, the performers would pay YOU. So yes, they need the sportsman racer but sadly, not in the way any of us want.



Sorry to be so pessimistic. But back then, there were people in the tower or on the grounds who loved cars, loved racing, and had the same look in their eye as we all do. The best I can tell, they're all gone.


We look at it as sport or a hobby. The people making decisions these days look at it as something that can generate money, and more money is more better regardless of what the whole organization was supposed to be about.



As for what would have happened if sportman racing had gone off on its own back then - I think any nationally organized effort would be gone by now. Look at all the different people who've tried to get an organizatiojn or series started. Some looked like they had promise, and others were doomed from the beginning. I won't say it's impossible but whatever or whoever it would take hasn't stepped forward so far.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Even the Pro's can't stick together. Just look at Pro Stock. Wait in a few years when the fuel cars can't field a full sixteen at most races. Can we say combine Top fuel and Funny car and have only one payout. A lot of us own businesses. Could you imagine treating your paying customers like this. Sorry I'm only going to let 50 in today. We don't really need you. Yah I know you helped me build this business but that was yesterday.


BP

Funny thing is that NHRA reduced the amount of races this year that will have Pro Stockers in competition, yet at Pomona, Pro Stock was the only "PRO" category that had a full field, even had a couple of alternates. By comparison, neither Top Fuel nor Funny Car were even close to having 16 cars each. But I suppose NHRA considers the Nitro cars as untouchable prima donas, so they are immune from such tactics.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Funny thing is that NHRA reduced the amount of races this year that will have Pro Stockers in competition, yet at Pomona, Pro Stock was the only "PRO" category that had a full field, even had a couple of alternates. By comparison, neither Top Fuel nor Funny Car were even close to having 16 cars each.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!

[Mike Jones]

Originally Posted by B Parker

It's sad most of us are just a bunch of Sheep. We would have a real impact if we could just come together as a group. BP

...But why shell out money (that could go to salaries and bonuses) if you could get something for the fans to watch - and not just for free, the performers would pay YOU. So yes, they need the sportsman racer but sadly, not in the way any of us want.
Dan Bennett

Mike A114