Question for Jeff Foster and Dave Kommel

[Toby Lang]

I find it very conspicuous that Jeff Foster hasn't replied to this thread yet. I'm pretty sure he's seen this thread. His last activity on the forum was on the 18th and I started this thread on the 17th.

Maybe it's because he knows it's really not the photographers that are causing the problem and doesn't want to admit there is a problem with the timing system.

I've heard a photographer has tried numerous times to replicate the problem and couldn't do it. I guess it's much easier to just blame the photographers.

How about it, Jeff? How about a reply to this thread? Or better yet, how about some testing while you have all the photographers at Phoenix? Surely you can find a little time before or after the racing is done to test this. I'm sure the photographers would be happy to help clear their names.

[Dave Kommel]

NHRA has now "fixed" the problem by banning all flash photography at all times and anywhere from the water box to the 225' photographers limit.

[Toby Lang]

I wonder what they will ban next when it happens again.

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by Toby Lang

I wonder what they will ban next when it happens again.

Good question Toby, and we know it will happen again. Probably no more video of the run by your crew. Then no more chrome wheels, then no chrome at all on the car.

As we all know it is not an issue with the timing system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Dave Kommel

NHRA has now "fixed" the problem by banning all flash photography at all times and anywhere from the water box to the 225' photographers limit.

[CycloneFE]

Well I don't have the answer either, but I will say that flashes can do weird things. I have taken hundreds of pic at the track and this is the only time it has ever happened and I have pics of the same car when I did not have a flash that were just fine. I used a medium grade Vivatar always set to manual mode. The panels on the car WERE reflective tape. Why it came out this way is still a mystery to me, even 30 years later.

[chevy620]

The only reason I have not heard yet...........and I feel it is THE REAL ANSWER, is DeFrank's car moved. I do not mean forward or rearward roll; I mean when his top bulb came on he went to the chip and it "shook the front tires" enough to let the infra-red beam to get to the receiver cell. I owned a track and watched A LOT of races on the starting line.
If Jimmy staged really shallow all was good...then when it hit the chip or just went to the mat...it could have caused enough tire movement to bite him.

He was lucky...he got a rerun. Why didn't Mike Cotten get one? It looked like he was .05 on the tree but it went red....must have been a camera or a spaceship sending infra-red signals.

WOW! I would have been so mad if I was Cotten I wouldn't have to worry about pre-entries, I would probably be banned after that "hose-job" he took. Win the WinterNationals and then get the news your opponent "didn't really red light"!!!

Sad day for Compulink if that can happen; maybe nobody has ever "really red-lighted"?? That would change some big race final rounds wouldn't it.

I owned a Compulink System. They were state of the art, but they have been surpassed by the drivers and cars the last 10 years.

I think it is time for a timing equipment overhaul, at least get it as accurate as some of the cell phones and data recorders being used by racers today.

C'mon Jeff; we know you are reading this. Let's hear the official reason on how a camera can start the tree.

Jok

[Michael Beard]

The only reason I have not heard yet...........and I feel it is THE REAL ANSWER, is DeFrank's car moved. I do not mean forward or rearward roll; I mean when his top bulb came on he went to the chip and it "shook the front tires" enough to let the infra-red beam to get to the receiver cell. I owned a track and watched A LOT of races on the starting line.

Once AGAIN....!!!

1) One updated version of the system includes a provision that locks out the pre-stage and stage bulbs from coming back on once the system thinks the car has left the beams (ie., stage light out), until the computer is reset. This prevents the pre-stage and stage lights from flickering when the rear tire goes passes through the starting line.
2) This red light phenomenon has occured at multiple tracks. One instance included a car that was footbraked: staged at a low rpm, then was brought up on the converter and was there for several seconds. The car was *solidly* staged with absolutely zero posibility of it having backed out of the beams.
3) The above incident, as well as several others that we have seen all show the red light displaying BEFORE the pre-stage and stage lights go out. This is a critical point that everyone continues to completely ignore.
4) If a car did in fact rock back out of the beams, you would see the stage light and pre-stage go out simultaneously due to the stage bulb lockout system (see #1 above) along with the red light being displayed. The only case in which the red light should be displayed BEFORE the stage light going out would be in the case of a deep stage foul in the classes that do not permit it.

YES, it is still possible to have a red-light from rocking out of the beams on systems not utilizing StageLock, and in fact it just happened in Super Comp last weekend at Gainesville. The multiple incidents we have been discussing are demonstrably different situations.

[Greg Reimer 7376]

What are photographers doing there anyways? There's too many bodies around that starting line anyway at that race, and although we can't change history, we can eliminate that possibility real quickly. It's also a safety issue. Drive line failure on the line could eject parts, somebody that close could get hit, there's also the distraction factor.Good photos can happen from other locations, why do they have to do that right there?

[Dinsdale]

There is plenty of evidence both video and people right there to prove one way or another if DeFrank's car moved. My opinion for the zero it's worth is his car didn't move.

There is no evidence so far to prove that a camera flash did indeed cause the false red so it's NHRA's "that's our story and we're sticking to it" once again. This isn't an isolated incident and getting to the truth of the matter would be a big step in getting it fixed.