NHRA allows Alum heads in stock/ss

[442OLDS]

You make some good points Bubski!

[bubski]

Originally Posted by Tim Ellis

I never said there weren't any small block Ford cores out there, just that it's much cheaper/ easier to get a set of Edelbrocks if I was to run SS

im sure a set of little chiefs for a small block chevy as cast with parts cost about the same as top of the line 461s ported for SS but that does not make them an appropriate choice for a superstocker that is supposed to have factory heads. If it were all about easy whats the point of class racing? go buy all the aftermarket stuff you want and run pro at the local track. S/SS is not about replacing all your stock engine pieces and specifications that are unique to your combo just to make it 'easier'. you think your head guy gonna give you break cause you give him nice new heads? i dont think so.

[Aubrey N Bruneau]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Aubrey, about how much could one expect to pay for a good block, heads, intake, and crank, to build a 409/425?

Generally, starts at about $3500. Depending how complete... can be as much as $6000.
Personlly, I won't sell one. Just WAY WAY too difficult to find around here ( not that I have an extra )

Tech-Man... I hear ya' about the IHRA / NHRA hypocracy !

[ppmracing]

The Mopar performance 452 Aluminum heads " story" !!!!
Try to make a wery long story short,,but kind off fun ,, and tru !!
I was the one that took up this head to try to make it leagal with Bruce at this years Winternationals in Pomona, to start with in Super Stock. The main reson was,, that their is NO heads out their if you whant to start build one 383-440 engines. The stock 906, then the made the 452 iron,then the made the 287 iron,,,, but Mopar dont make this anymoore,,and you cant find anything ( i tryed for 1,5 years).Now the make this aluminum 452 as the next replacement SS heads ( i was thinking so but not Mopar)so now this should be leagal. So i asked Bruce ans told him,, i am going to put this on a SS 440 engine , the 452 casting is in the rule book as leagal , this has a STRAIGHT plug ( the Edelbrock has angel) Its a branded heads and al the specifikation is going to be as per the rules when i am done,,, the onley thing that is different is the material aluminum. Al the other brands have leagal heads that is in Aluminum and that is a AFTERMARKET heads ( Edelbrock) Are you going to tell me then that this is not a leagal heads ?? Bruce ( and al the respect for him) sayed,,, i cant se why this not should be leagal,, WHY have nobody told this to me befor, i dident no about this Mopar 452 alu heads, come back tomorrow and we talk moore about this. I talk to him again on saturday and he says, can you get me one off this heads and then i am going to look at this asap. Dale Aldo the head cheif at Mopar was their and i told him this, and that i have open the door for the to make this head approved. I asked him if he could take a head over ( get one from Glendora Dodge that have them in stock) to Bruce this weekend, He was NOT interessted at AL,, standing their eating his burger,,, i told him so it is Pro stock and Hemi for you,, but you should mabe think on the racers that support you and get youre *** off the wagon and get a heads over to NHRA,, thas the least thing you can do??. He promiss me on monday, Bruce told me call me in 2 weeks and we shall se,,, i call him,, no heads,, then finaly,,, Bruce send me a e mail in april call me. I called him , and he Says Peter this heads is going to be legal and i whant you to be the first to know, so go ahed and build youre SS engines for youre customer, BRUCE is wery great and good, allot off respect for him.Then i try to find all this heads out their in the hole USA , and i get 3 heads. So we could start the R&D on this,,,,, long story wery short,, AND i am frome SWEDEN,,,,this is the funny part..

Peter PPM Racing

[Wade_Owens]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

The heads have to meet the specs from the year claimed, hence change the aforementioned stuff, and only get +5, probably still a bargain. A move in the right direction. What am I misssing here?

Jeffrey, you know we're tight and I like ya, but, I aint fallen for this one. The specs (volumes) are one thing, the port shapes, guide sizes, short turn radiuses, valve distance to center of the chamber, plug location, chamber shape etc, are all going to be better. Why would Edelbrock build an EXACT duplicate of ANY oe cylinder head? They are going to install all known performance advantages to entice the buyer to purchase a set of these "replacement" heads. Like I said, otherwise, why bother? Original heads are out there. If you chose a combo that these parts are not available, you shouldnt lobby for an aftermarket part. (No disrespect to anyone that has, this is my opinion) If I decide to run a Max Wedge, I had better be prepared to search my *** of for a set of unmolested original heads. Carbs are also very hard to find too, but I dont want a Holley accepted on my 283. What you are missing is the oe heads cant legally have these mods that are already engineered into these accepted heads. Remember the angled spark plug adapters? And for the record, I dont think the Pontiacs or the BBC's replacements should have ever been allowed either! But, the barn door has been left open......

I look forward to drinking a tall glass of tea and discussing it at Belle Rose with ya, cant wait for March!!

Wade O

[Todd Hoven]

Wade, Pontiac has no aftermarket replacement heads accepted. If nobody was allowed replacement heads I would not want any for my combo. Since the cat is out of the bag, why shoudnt somebody that has to race against these guys lobby for the same type of parts. If we could only roll back the rules to 1977. Those were the days.

[Wade_Owens]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Wade, Pontiac has no aftermarket replacement heads accepted. If nobody was allowed replacement heads I would not want any for my combo. Since the cat is out of the bag, why shoudnt somebody that has to race against these guys lobby for the same type of parts. If we could only roll back the rules to 1977. Those were the days.

Todd, don't get me wrong on this, I do understand why. Just don't blow smoke and tell us they are replacement heads, I don't buy it. If aftermarket parts are allowed for one, they should be legal and readily available for all combos.
Don't the 428 Pontiacs use an alum aftermarket head?
These type of changes are why a simple valve spring rule later causes people to ask for aftermarket seats. The quicker et's are now a cause for safety concerns. Butterfly effect, eh?
Anyway, we'll see how it all goes, can't unring a bell, right?

Wade O

[Chris DeGidio]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Before I sold my 69 Super Bee, I could not find a pair of 906 castings out of a hugh pile we have accumulated over the years that were worth the 3k or so it takes, and my old stuff done in l995 were getting weak. I know for one new parts are needed for the old cars and they will run faster. In the case of the Mopars, the old 906 heads were 3/8 stems, 2.08 1.74 valves. The Eddys and Mopar come with 2.14 and 1.81 valves and 11/32 stems. So now one has to put in 16 new seats, 16 new guides, and 16 new 3/8 valves. This I disagree with, and suggested the heads out-of-the-box @ +10 (a bargain for any combo) and about $1500 cheaper. The heads have to meet the specs from the year claimed, hence change the aforementioned stuff, and only get +5, probably still a bargain. A move in the right direction. The original configuratiion voiced by some are gone, like Clark Gable, with the wind. And you don't have to run them, just like the rockers. What am I misssing here?

You are not missing anything Jeff.The heads (Edelbrock,Mopar 452) should be allowed.I know for a fact that a Edelbrock head isn't that much more than a "massaged" 906 stock eliminator head,and the Hp "penalty" you suggested is in line.Another head worth looking at is one from a company called 440 Source.They have a exact duplicate of a 915 head that is aluminum.

[bubski]

Originally Posted by Wade_Owens

Jeffrey, you know we're tight and I like ya, but, I aint fallen for this one. The specs (volumes) are one thing, the port shapes, guide sizes, short turn radiuses, valve distance to center of the chamber, plug location, chamber shape etc, are all going to be better. Why would Edelbrock build an EXACT duplicate of ANY oe cylinder head? They are going to install all known performance advantages to entice the buyer to purchase a set of these "replacement" heads. Like I said, otherwise, why bother? Original heads are out there. If you chose a combo that these parts are not available, you shouldnt lobby for an aftermarket part. (No disrespect to anyone that has, this is my opinion) If I decide to run a Max Wedge, I had better be prepared to search my *** of for a set of unmolested original heads. Carbs are also very hard to find too, but I dont want a Holley accepted on my 283. What you are missing is the oe heads cant legally have these mods that are already engineered into these accepted heads. Remember the angled spark plug adapters? And for the record, I dont think the Pontiacs or the BBC's replacements should have ever been allowed either! But, the barn door has been left open......

I look forward to drinking a tall glass of tea and discussing it at Belle Rose with ya, cant wait for March!!

Wade O

Right on the only thing that makes these aftermarket heads 'replacement' is that they fit the engine block. totally redesigned port shapes. the only true replacement head that was ever cast by aftermarket were the horrible dart iron replacements that flowed even less than the heads they replaced. I have one simple question to those on here whining they need edelbrock heads. If your racing currently and have a few sets of your unobtainable,rare heads already why do need these new heads now?1 So you can try to do the restoration people a favor and give them your old heads? 2So you can have yours cause someone got theirs ? .Where does it all end?

[tpoh815]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

I just remember when I did this very thing in IHRA years ago and all the NHRA racers hated the idea and started calling IHRA the International Hillbilly Hot Rod association. Now you guys are loving it. It was a bad idea for IHRA but now that NHRA decided to do it all is good and they can "walk on water"......can you say HYPERCRIT ! Same deal on the roller rockers ! When IHRA does it everyone says its a joke. When NHRA does it all is OK in the race car world.

Right on!