Starting problems...

67champ · 03-22-2015, 11:29 PM

Ok, this has been a several years ongoing issue, but it seems like ever since I added my TCI outlaw shifter I have been experiencing several intermittent starting issues. It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold outside, doesn't matter if starter is hot or cold. It has random slow cranking, or sluggish cranking first half-second then normal, sometimes no cranking! (but, some days it doesn't do it all day..... other days it happens most of the time..)

I have heard this may be due to the shifter's micro-switch neutral safety and the fact that I didn't add a relay into the start circuit when converting to the new shifter from stock.

At this point I'm not even certain what a relay does, but I am thinking of installing relay as a last ditch effort to resolve this problem.

Can you give me any words of wisdom on this subject? Thanks.

n5ifi · 05-18-2015, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67champ

Ok, this has been a several years ongoing issue, but it seems like ever since I added my TCI outlaw shifter I have been experiencing several intermittent starting issues. It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold outside, doesn't matter if starter is hot or cold. It has random slow cranking, or sluggish cranking first half-second then normal, sometimes no cranking! (but, some days it doesn't do it all day..... other days it happens most of the time..)

I have heard this may be due to the shifter's micro-switch neutral safety and the fact that I didn't add a relay into the start circuit when converting to the new shifter from stock.

At this point I'm not even certain what a relay does, but I am thinking of installing relay as a last ditch effort to resolve this problem.

Can you give me any words of wisdom on this subject? Thanks.

The switch is binary. It's either on or off.
Unless it's wired wrong, it's not your problem for slow cranking. If it's wired wrong and causing slow cranking its probably on fire sooooo.

The problem with slow cranking is more likely to be a connection problem somewhere. The problem here is that you most likely can't find it with a regular ohm meter unless you are lucky or really good. These slow cranking connection problems are all less than 1 ohm for the most part.

Look for poor connections visually. Clean any connection point and look for loose crimps, corrosion etc.etc.

Install your voltmeter across connection points and take measurements readings while cranking the car.

For example, faulty or badly corroded safety shutoff switch contacts. Turn the switch on and put your voltmeter (VDC) leads on each side of the switch you should see no voltage at all right? Why? There is no potential difference across the switch. There is probably little current flow either at that point. If there is resistance in the switch or connection you will see voltage when the you try and start the car. This is the voltage drop across the connection. If you check across these connection during high current draw like starting the car and see voltage that is a bad connection.

Bill Baer · 05-19-2015, 10:54 PM

Well the object of using a relay in the neutral safety circuit is to reduce the amp draw and arcing in the relatively small micro switch in the shifter. The best way to wire it is in the aerospace components shifter instructions available on their web site.
However the problem is probably a poor ground. I run my primary ground wire to the starter because the starter circuit draws the largest amp load in the whole car ( more than 800 amps!) and if your ground path won't consistently handle the load the starter can't perform as designed.
A simple way to test for this is with a pair of jumper cables clamp the negative cable to the battery negative post and the other end to the starter housing and see if it starts better.
If you using the body of the car or the chassis and or motor plates as your ground path there are a lot of places were you could have a bad or intermittently bad ground.

67champ · 11-14-2021, 11:42 PM

A bit of an update here. I ended up having to replace my relay often, so I finally had someone smart look at it.

I don't completely understand all the issues. However, the person that fixed it said, I had a lot of bad wiring (some wiring too small diameter, Not grounded properly, less than great butt connectors, wires that had been very hot at one time or another, etc.). Also, he explained the mirco neutral switch is just a "on" or "off" kind of deal and didn't agree that I needed the relay. He said the relay was kind of a band-aid in this case. Oh, he said I was getting less than 9 volts when he got the car, and now getting over 12 volts after he finished.

He installed a lot of new wires and thicker wires, put a ford type solenoid in the passenger side of the car (away from the heat), and a couple new grounds, and wired things properly (ie: per best practices).

The result is that the car cranks and starts great now! ANd, starts and runs better when cold. This was just finished about a month ago... Can't wait to run this thing next year without having to worry every time if it is going to crank or not!

03-22-2015, 11:29 PM	#1
67champ Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 43 Likes: 4 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Starting problems... Ok, this has been a several years ongoing issue, but it seems like ever since I added my TCI outlaw shifter I have been experiencing several intermittent starting issues. It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold outside, doesn't matter if starter is hot or cold. It has random slow cranking, or sluggish cranking first half-second then normal, sometimes no cranking! (but, some days it doesn't do it all day..... other days it happens most of the time..) I have heard this may be due to the shifter's micro-switch neutral safety and the fact that I didn't add a relay into the start circuit when converting to the new shifter from stock. At this point I'm not even certain what a relay does, but I am thinking of installing relay as a last ditch effort to resolve this problem. Can you give me any words of wisdom on this subject? Thanks.

05-19-2015, 10:54 PM	#3
Bill Baer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Nothern IL Posts: 596 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Starting problems... Well the object of using a relay in the neutral safety circuit is to reduce the amp draw and arcing in the relatively small micro switch in the shifter. The best way to wire it is in the aerospace components shifter instructions available on their web site. However the problem is probably a poor ground. I run my primary ground wire to the starter because the starter circuit draws the largest amp load in the whole car ( more than 800 amps!) and if your ground path won't consistently handle the load the starter can't perform as designed. A simple way to test for this is with a pair of jumper cables clamp the negative cable to the battery negative post and the other end to the starter housing and see if it starts better. If you using the body of the car or the chassis and or motor plates as your ground path there are a lot of places were you could have a bad or intermittently bad ground. __________________ Bill Baer 3391 SC, 339B SC, QR

11-14-2021, 11:42 PM	#4
67champ Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 43 Likes: 4 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: Starting problems... A bit of an update here. I ended up having to replace my relay often, so I finally had someone smart look at it. I don't completely understand all the issues. However, the person that fixed it said, I had a lot of bad wiring (some wiring too small diameter, Not grounded properly, less than great butt connectors, wires that had been very hot at one time or another, etc.). Also, he explained the mirco neutral switch is just a "on" or "off" kind of deal and didn't agree that I needed the relay. He said the relay was kind of a band-aid in this case. Oh, he said I was getting less than 9 volts when he got the car, and now getting over 12 volts after he finished. He installed a lot of new wires and thicker wires, put a ford type solenoid in the passenger side of the car (away from the heat), and a couple new grounds, and wired things properly (ie: per best practices). The result is that the car cranks and starts great now! ANd, starts and runs better when cold. This was just finished about a month ago... Can't wait to run this thing next year without having to worry every time if it is going to crank or not!