Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses

[John Cantlay]

The concern I have for combining stk/auto records is the weight break for auto's in the modified classes. All cars or trucks running a full auto may remove up to 5% or 250 pounds. Stick cars have to run the stated pounds per cubic inch. Perhaps have all cars run the same pounds per cubic inch.
We are a small number of cars but I would like to remain in Super Stock.

[SS3718]

Originally Posted by John Cantlay

The concern I have for combining stk/auto records is the weight break for auto's in the modified classes. All cars or trucks running a full auto may remove up to 5% or 250 pounds. Stick cars have to run the stated pounds per cubic inch. Perhaps have all cars run the same pounds per cubic inch.
We are a small number of cars but I would like to remain in Super Stock.

My guess is there are several automatic cars that will say it isn't fair to run against a stick at the same weight! I know a few cars that have added sticks and went quite a bit quicker!

On the other hand, if NHRA is consistent, you won't have to worry about the 5% or 250 pound difference. There is no difference in Factory Super Stock and Factory GT classes between sticks and automatics.

[Eric Merryfield]

I really like just about all of the suggestions, especially qualifying off the index.

Combining sticks and autos for traditional cars, I'm not sure. There is a significant difference between stock and superstock.

It would be nice to see if nitro joe could use his spreadsheet to simulate same index factor and see how everything plays out. The low # of stick cars allows for a low/lower budget competitor to compete in the eliminator with a low heads up risk. This is true in both stock and superstock.

I think it would have the potential for decreasing stick participation especially in the F-G-H catagories in stock. Not sure about the A class....

I run both autos and sticks, and enjoy both.....sticks are more fun, but certainly not a .10 faster in a G class, if anything the autos are a .10 faster with radials. 12 index for G/SA while 11.90 for G/S.......oddly T/SA and T/S are both 14.40....

Indy just wouldn't be the same at all running combined class for the classic cars......not even close.

Just my thoughts.

Eric

[Wade Mahaffey]

I'm in the long process of building a car For S/S (way down the food chain LOL). I have been around Drag Racing for many years... 40+. During that time have built and/or modified 100s of race cars. I know what it takes to build a "Best Engineered" award winning race car as I have several awards for such in the NHRA, IHRA, and ISCA. I do all the work in Design and Fabrication, Body & Paint, Engine Assembly, etc... basically the only hands to touch the car. Being the fastest is not in my program, but I have respect for whoever that may be. I don't have any problem with deep pockets being the fastest, and even those that have the resources (Money, Talent, Mom & Dad, and friends) that it takes to be fast. But in most, if not all cases it does require some additional resources to be the fastest ... now if you do it all yourself, and you are the fastest ... you are one bad Mofo, and I would be the first to give you a standing ovation. I like the concept of additional awards (points and/or money) for top qualifiers and class winners even though that will never be me on my own. I will have to get mine driving both ends, and that's OK. Remember.. when bracket racing started, it was because everyone could not keep up with Class Racing Cost to compete, and/or be competitive. Drag racing would have died long ago without Bracket Racing. Now don't get me wrong .... THE FASTEST IS THE COOLEST! but reasonable affordability is the key to keeping it alive ... for the racer ... and the fan

[Bruce Fulper]

Combine sticks with automatics. NO! no, no,no,no,no........

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by SS3718

On the other hand, if NHRA is consistent, you won't have to worry about the 5% or 250 pound difference. There is no difference in Factory Super Stock and Factory GT classes between sticks and automatics.

They care nothing about consistency. I brought up this very issue a couple years ago, to deaf ears. They literally would not even acknowledge that I had asked the question.

In classes where sticks and autos are combined, if XYZ classes get a weight break, why don't ABC classes get it?
OR
If ABC classes don't get it, why do XYZ classes?

I don't care which way it is, but be consistent.


I have advocated for combining sticks and autos and consolidating a limited amount of weight breaks for YEARS. There are already different HP factors for sticks & autos. Let it shake out. Most people are more interested in protecting their own perceived advantage in a small pond. People lose their minds if you dare mention that they are bracket racing, but apparently they don't want any more heads-up racing, either.

[340Cuda]

Ed,

For the first time today I read your entire proposal and the rest of this thread.

Your proposal is certainly very well written and appears to be getting serious consideration.

I only part I don't agree with would be combining sticks and automatics. While there may be some cases where the cars would be equal I don't that that would usually be the case.

SS/AH is a class that combines manual and automatics. I think the vast majority these days run manuals. Which tells me they think the manuals are faster.

While I have not done any research I think the lower class cars would be at a disadvantage running automatics.

I was very disappointed to see you had received some abusive emails. I guess some Class racers don't have any class.

Thanks for your passion for the sport.
Bill Lamb

[Hagen Gary]

I just don’t get what you guys are so afraid of by combining sticks and autos. It cuts the classes in half. Sticks will have an advantage in heads up with their soft factors, but Autos clearly have an advantage in the eliminator with their constancy. Maybe this would bring more sticks to the table, which I wouldn’t mind because I’ll keep my auto and win the eliminator. How many stick combos go rounds these days? I can think of a few great stick racers, but the majority have trouble with the dial and the tree. even Kevin Helms rolls the Auto now. Most stick cars don’t make 2nd round, so If you can’t dodge a first round heads up, that’s on you. Heads up is only like 3% of the time in the eliminator. What are y’all scared of?

[Ed Carpenter]

Just so everyone knows back when I originally pitched this idea it was sent to all SRAC reps. They were to get with their racers and discuss. Nhra advised me they were going to get with all reps before getting back to me. I'm starting to get a ton of heat about sticks and autos. Back when I pitched it most were for it. Now the winds are changing. I'm ok with that. We need dialogue and discussions on the matter. I'm a state trooper so I have thick skin. In the end if they put national records back into play and make class mean something again I will have succeeded here. Time will tell....Good luck to everyone this year. If your going to Baytown I will see you there....Ed

[340Cuda]

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

I just don’t get what you guys are so afraid of by combining sticks and autos. It cuts the classes in half. Sticks will have an advantage in heads up with their soft factors, but Autos clearly have an advantage in the eliminator with their constancy. Maybe this would bring more sticks to the table, which I wouldn’t mind because I’ll keep my auto and win the eliminator. How many stick combos go rounds these days? I can think of a few great stick racers, but the majority have trouble with the dial and the tree. even Kevin Helms rolls the Auto now. Most stick cars don’t make 2nd round, so If you can’t dodge a first round heads up, that’s on you. Heads up is only like 3% of the time in the eliminator. What are y’all scared of?

Good points, you did not have any trouble with me the only time we raced, automatic to automatic. LOL...