Is the Hybrid really the solution?

[Ed Fernandez]

Billy Nees for our new leader.He drives a Geo and that thing got 50+ mpg going to Florida a few years ago.grannted it didn't have a CD player and the cheap ($*$%& wouldn't let me put the a/c on but it was a pretty comfortable ride,except for the tire that was going square on us.Viva la Geo.






92 more to go

[Hagen Gary]

Originally Posted by Tom keedle

can you read!?!?
i don't NEED to do any more "research", i actually work on them.

don't care for the way they drive,or for some of the B.S. issues they have, or the fact that they have all the styling of a bar of soap.

you like the car?
fine.
i don't have to.

I didn't say you had to like it. I just think you shouldn't be spreading rumors just to bash it.
How can you work on them and not know how much it cost to change the battery? You must do it alot cuz you also implied that my battery will go out when you said, "when that 7-10K battery takes a hike, you may want to scrap it". You didn't say "if it goes out" , even though less than 1% fail before 180 K. Just how many Prius' have you seen with 180 k on them? Now, if you don't work at a Toyota dealer, I understand why you don't like them. To complicated for your avg mechanic.

[Tom keedle]

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

I didn't say you had to like it. I just think you shouldn't be spreading rumors just to bash it.
How can you work on them and not know how much it cost to change the battery? You must do it alot cuz you also implied that my battery will go out when you said, "when that 7-10K battery takes a hike, you may want to scrap it". You didn't say "if it goes out" , even though less than 1% fail before 180 K. Just how many Prius' have you seen with 180 k on them? Now, if you don't work at a Toyota dealer, I understand why you don't like them. To complicated for your avg mechanic.

you're right, i DON'T work for a dealer.
i have to fix the stuff they can't....

btw, i ALSO don't have to make out the bills.

[Eddies66]

I bought my wife a little around town car back in the 80s, the Chevy Sprint. The car got 54 mpg but was dangerous on the open hiway. I would compare it to the Fiat 500 in size and if an 18 wheeler went by you had to hold on.

[chris ok]

In early 08 I had a customer at the Toyota dealer w a hybrid Camry. It had a very smally dash rattle, but I have to tell you it sounds different than any other car. He explains to me the car is the only place he can talk to his fatheras he is legallydeaf over 20 years and has nothad a real conversation till he bought the Camry. He and his dad would drive around or just park so they may talk. I fixed the rattle. Thecar drove so quietit was unnerving to me. NO road noise at all. Best quiet cabin I've ever seen, and for that alone I hope I never need one. The customer was so happy it was fixed. I was happy for him as they had not sploken in so long till this car.
On another note, you disconnect the rear diff on the hybrid highlander and the torque of the front whell drive wil leave posi marks as long as you stand on it. No you can't do it at home, only thru the scan tool.
They are excellent vehicles. along w the rest of the fleet they build. America can learn, Ford did by purchasing rights to hybrid technology 1 from toyodel. Toyota is on like 4th or 5th gen now.
I look forward to Tacomas and full size. But there is a weightpenalty, and I'd still not want to be in a badd accident in one.
Too each his own. I still like standard vehicles and all are so improved in every brand available.
But the hybrids are good for techies. Some get up to 100mpg w double batterys in those ugly priuses. Not my cup of tea, I buy cheap and fix my own to drive cars.

[Michael Beard]

Economics: More electric cars means more demand on electricity, which means higher prices for electricity. More electric cars means less gas used, which means less gas taxes paid. Will the lost revenue be made up in higher taxes on electricity, gasoline, or the implementation of a new tax?

[Tony Curcio]

There is a benefit to having a strong* hybrid, a benefit that Toyota has only just started advertising for the 2012 model year Camry- it's like having a power adder.

My 2008 Camry hybrid has a 120 HP gas engine and an electric motor that adds the equivalent of 60 more HP, for a total of 180 in a 2600 lb car.The 2012 now has a total of 200 hp. The torque is instantaneous when rolling, but the traction control won't allow it to launch hard.

I took it down to the Maxton Mile and entered in the E/Production class. The record was a tad over 125 mph, set by a 1960 Ford Ranchero (a Falcon pick up truck) with a full-race Pinto 2300 cc OHC engine. Headers, ported heads, race cam, no rules that limit compression.

My box-stock Camry was classified by displacement, no penalty for the extra motor. I hit the chip about 200 feet from the line, and coasted through with the engine still shut off, clocked at 118.7+. The chip was set for 120, and it's clear it would have picked up a few more mph with the speedometer recalibrated or taller tires on the drive wheels.

It also ran back to back 15.90's at Cecil County on a sweltering hot July afternoon. The ECM won't let the tires spin, so the 60 foot times were atrocious, and the only way to cut a light is to use a technique Michael Beard once described when he raced his mother's car- which is to put down the visor to block the top bulb, then react to the SECOND yellow.

Not quite the slug I expected when I bought it. I got it when gasoline was over $4.00 at the end of 2007 and early 2008, thinking I'd hate it, but the V-8 pick up truck I was using had cost me $9600 for fuel that year (I drive a lot), so I was gonna suck it up. Instead, it saved almost $400/mo, and I really piss off the Mustang 5.0 drivers on I-95, when I pull away from them in high gear.

BTW- hybrids do not need to be recharged, and Toyota offers an extended warranty that covers the inevitable battery replacement. Mine is at 145,000 miles and in its fifth year.
*none of the domestics are strong hybrids- except the new Ford Focus.

[Harry 6674]

Driving a prius is the closest thing to casteration a man could deal with without feeling the knife. Totally silly. I have to pass two of those POSs every morning climbing the hills on 101. It's fun to spool up the turbo in the big Dodge when I blow by them. Quit embarresing yourself and buy american labels.

[Tom keedle]

about the 5 min mark about covers it














j/k...

[Greg Reimer 7376]

I've worked on cars for 40 years. I've worked at the City of Los Angeles vehicle fleet services shop for 25 years now. We had to phase out all our Chevy Cavaliers for the first gen Prius in 2003.We also got Honda Civic hybrids at the same time. The Prius caused us more problems with electrical issues and dead starting batteries,etc all of which went warranty(when you buy cars by the hundreds, they fix stuff on warranty if they ever want to sell more cars to us),and while the Civics weren't perfect, they were far better than the prius.The Honda looks conventional and drives much more like a gas only car without some of the hybrid ideosyncrasies ,and thry didn't seem to break down as much.Both manufacturers have offered warranty computer updates and free(warranty),and Honda offers free pick up and delivery. Problem with a warranty glitch,even though the fix is free,I have to send someone to drive it, and someone else to pick him up in another car or the shop truck for a minimum of two man hours,then two more to pick it up after repairs are completed by the dealer,for a total of four hours shop time. That's substantial overhead per repair.Also,much of LA's drive time is freeway,and neither car offers hardly any mileage improvement over surface streets. The idea is a good one,but it isn't practical for all applications. Still, these cars are past the guinea pig stage,and other than the main battery pack replacement issue( who'se going to pay for it?),they aren't at all impractical.The whole concept ot the hybrid isn't a new one,at all. In the 1920's, in an ever increasing search for more power, more reliability, and less costs of operation,the nation's railroads were constantly experimenting with new forms of motive power. Hooking a gas engine to a transmission and a gear driven drivetrain to a drive axle didn't work with rail wheels. A torque converter automatic didn't exist then but hydraulic gas and diesel powered locomotives were tried, and the thing that eventually won was the construction of electric drive engines based on a large version of a streetcar powertrain.After all,when does an electric motor develop max torque?Dead stall, when you are trying to get a train to leave the line. Add a large capacity generator to provide the electricity and a large prime mover(engine to drive the generator), and you have a self contained,self generating diesel hybrid electric propulsion unit. In the late 1930's General Motors built prototype demonstrater units, toured the country with them, sold as many as they could build, and their money came in faster than they could count it. Between 1920 and 1960, they repowered an entire industry from steam to diesel. During WW II, the demand for rail transportation by the military resulted in the need for more power,but diesel engines were in demand for tanks,ships,and submarines, and some of the finest, best and most powerful and efficient steam locomotives were built, then only used for about a decade. Most were scrapped with less than 25% of their service life used. I guess all things come around again, however.Seems to me, a small light diesel engine would be great for driving a hybrid. That could actually be a 100 mpg car.