Lithium battery goes up in smoke at Gainesville….

[MR DERBY CITY]

A superstock racer was warming up his car in Gainesville, the engine shut off and he was able to remove the battery from the car before any damage could occur. Mike Cotten saw that the battery was smoking and he wasted no time pitching it to the ground. Just makes me wonder what could have been if this happened going down the road OR if the Cotten’s were asleep in the rig…….GOD is GOOD !!!!! ……

[Mike Pearson]

Most all batteries now days are lithium. Every phone and computer. Every cordless tool uses lithium batteries. Golf carts are now going to lithium. My hearing aids use lithium batteries. I have a lithium battery in my race car and have been using them for at least 8 years. Mine is a Go Lithium. It has been flawless. They claim they have never had a battery failure or fire with their batteries.
Anything can happen. Mike was lucky he caught it before it did any real damage. I spoke to him just after the incident in the lanes. We were running each other for class. He was his usual upbeat self. Just happy to be at the racetrack doing what he loves. Mike is a really great guy. Always has a big smile on his face. Really friendly person.

[1320racer]

true but also true is acid batteries never went up in smoke and fire! Lithium batteries clearly are unstable.

[JP1738]

I'll never go to one after everything I've heard about them. I've always used Optima Red Tops and I've literally never heard anyone talk poorly of them. I can use one for 2-3 years before I have to replace it too. What's the benefits to a lithium battery? Lighter? More powerful? I've never had any issues with a gel battery and whatever upsides there are don't seem to out-weigh the risks.

[Jim Kaekel]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

true but also true is acid batteries never went up in smoke and fire! Lithium batteries clearly are unstable.

That is not fact. Back when I was a young man in the late '70's, I went to start my '70 Cutlass and the battery exploded caused by corrosion on the terminals. I opened the hood and the whole side of the battery was blown out with acid all over the engine compartment, including my M/T aluminum valve covers. That's why safety glasses were recommended back then when working with lead/acid batteries. Since I had no way of rescue back then, I hit the ignition again for the heck of it and it started. Needless to say, I got a new battery. I've had lithium batteries in both of our race cars the past few years.

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by JP1738

I'll never go to one after everything I've heard about them. I've always used Optima Red Tops and I've literally never heard anyone talk poorly of them. I can use one for 2-3 years before I have to replace it too. What's the benefits to a lithium battery? Lighter? More powerful? I've never had any issues with a gel battery and whatever upsides there are don't seem to out-weigh the risks.

Never say never your racing stock now, and yes there are some concrete benefits.......those hard fought for and treasured wally things from winning class don't happen by accident.....

First lets look at the obvious weight delta and weight distribution, as a stocker example in my truck many years ago, low HPish, but good example, by moving 70 pounds of ballast from behind seat to weight box in rear I picked up .05......

Last year in my rocket ship of a gremlin I swapped out my 11 year old optima red top for a 5. something pound llithium antigravity brand(affordable.....its a gremlin........total weight loss was over 38 pounds due to bracket change etc.......I had visions of wheelstands in my head.....note this is a 12 volt lithium not the more popular and even stronger 16 volts...

First impressions on its intial fire up in the spring after its traditional wintering in the goldrush......this thing fired up like instantly......seems like it has much more umphh....

Took it racing of course.......didn't notice anything on my time slips except for the 30 something pound reduction.....put the spare tire back to match the weight, no real improvement, which kind of surprised me....millage will vary.....

charging time is brutally fast compared to the red top........1/2 the time.....got to like that when you are getting hot lapped in a 15 minute turn around.....note I have a big honking beast of a alternator on the gremlin, full size

I made sure to buy the best charger for the battery and also have a spare lesser charger just in case.

Since this is a performance class, 30 plus pounds off the nose for a heads up run is a no-brainer, and could make the difference between making the field at Indy or not......which is what most class racers if their being honest really want to do, qualify and win Indy.....

[Mark Ugrich]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

true but also true is acid batteries never went up in smoke and fire! Lithium batteries clearly are unstable.

Depends on the type of lithium and how the battery is constructed.

[Altronics]

Most of the lithium batteries sold by this "Brand" in question do not have a BMS (Battery Management System)

The BMS protects the battery!!!!

Myself and Pat McCue (MLE racecars) have been in talks with the NHRA for a couple of years now trying to establish a requirement for all lithium batteries used at NHRA events have the correct protection built in. Hopefully, this will get finalized soon.

It is unfortunate that there are several companies that are selling lithium batteries in the performance market without a BMS or any other protection. Note: Internal battery "Balancers" are a BMS and are NOT protection!

It is much less expensive to build a lithium battery without a BMS. The BMS can double the price of the battery.

Many batteries will also advertise using Lithium Iron Phosphate - LiFePo4 "Safe" cells, and although they are the Safest lithium cell, they still can go into thermal runaway without a BMS.

I have 30 years engineering experience developing electronics. When Lithium batteries first started being used in the automotive aftermarket there were no BMS systems that could handle the power required to crank high compression racing engines. I spent many years developing the first BMS that could work is this application. The BMS used in our PowerLite PRO series batteries fully protects the battery from you and you from the battery. Our BMS protects from under/over voltage, cell imbalance, over/under temperature, cranking time limit, over current, and short circuit.

Here is a link for more basic info on a BMS->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_management_system


Lithium batteries are great when built and used properly. We have PowerLite batteries that are 10 years old and still going strong and of course, at about 10 pounds, it is hard to beat the cost per weight savings.

Remember:
1) Balancers are NOT protection
2) There are no such thing as matched cells that do not require a BMS
3) There are no lithium battery chemistries that do not require a BMS
4) A Lithium battery without a BMS is not a good idea

Do your homework before purchasing a lithium battery. Make sure it has a Full BMS protection!!!

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions!

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Altronics

Most of the lithium batteries sold by this "Brand" in question do not have a BMS (Battery Management System)

The BMS protects the battery!!!!

Myself and Pat McCue (MLE racecars) have been in talks with the NHRA for a couple of years now trying to establish a requirement for all lithium batteries used at NHRA events have the correct protection built in. Hopefully, this will get finalized soon.

It is unfortunate that there are several companies that are selling lithium batteries in the performance market without a BMS or any other protection. Note: Internal battery "Balancers" are a BMS and are NOT protection!

It is much less expensive to build a lithium battery without a BMS. The BMS can double the price of the battery.

Many batteries will also advertise using Lithium Iron Phosphate - LiFePo4 "Safe" cells, and although they are the Safest lithium cell, they still can go into thermal runaway without a BMS.

I have 30 years engineering experience developing electronics. When Lithium batteries first started being used in the automotive aftermarket there were no BMS systems that could handle the power required to crank high compression racing engines. I spent many years developing the first BMS that could work is this application. The BMS used in our PowerLite PRO series batteries fully protects the battery from you and you from the battery. Our BMS protects from under/over voltage, cell imbalance, over/under temperature, cranking time limit, over current, and short circuit.

Here is a link for more basic info on a BMS->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_management_system


Lithium batteries are great when built and used properly. We have PowerLite batteries that are 10 years old and still going strong and of course, at about 10 pounds, it is hard to beat the cost per weight savings.

Remember:
1) Balancers are NOT protection
2) There are no such thing as matched cells that do not require a BMS
3) There are no lithium battery chemistries that do not require a BMS
4) A Lithium battery without a BMS is not a good idea

Do your homework before purchasing a lithium battery. Make sure it has a Full BMS protection!!!

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions!

Good info here, don't think you were referring to my little ATX 20HD which does have bms, I seem to recall one or two of the manufacturers I called up didn't use BMS. Their argument was it was a crutch for substandard cells, which I can see, but I wanted a bit more security with a BMS. Rapidly changing world, even Optima now offers small lithium orange batteries with BMS.

[Dan Bennett]

Originally Posted by Eric Merryfield

Their argument was it was a crutch for substandard cells

Whoever they were, I'll try to be polite and just say they were totally incorrect. Even the best cells in a batch from the best manufacturers are subject to the laws of thermodynamics and physics. If they are abused as described above, they will fail the same as any other.