Air vs Electric stops

Adger Smith · 11-13-2007, 12:45 AM

I did a search & didn't come up with much. I'm getting ready to do a .90 class car for next year & was interested in the pros & cons of the air & electric blade systems or air cable/pedal systems. Is the pro style staging system really necessary for .90 classes? I already have some parts to an air system & a Pro Cube from a car I bought a few years ago. Sell & update or use what I have since this is new to me & I'm going to have to learn a system, any system???? Don't be bashful. If you are giving away top secret info PM or E-mail me.
Adger Smith
adgersperf@aol.com

SSTHottie1236 · 11-13-2007, 07:57 AM

On tricky tracks, it's nice to have the air-on/air-off throttle stops, the electic snaps back quicker and if the track isn't there you may be driving a little more than you'd like. The under the carb stops seem to be the most consistent but also more expensive and depending on which one you purchase, you could lose a substantial amount of horsepower (I've heard upwards of 40). However, I've won my fair share of rounds with the linkage setup so don't worry if the under the carb is not in the budget.
As for the Pro Cube, we have one in both cars. My dad has had the same one in his car for 10 seasons and (knocking on lots and lots of wood right now) has never had a problem. We did however send it back to K&R this year just to have it updated so you could send it back to get a clean bill of health if it would make you feel more confident and they were great to deal with.
Hope this helps!

Kelli
1236 S/ST

GaryGoFast · 11-13-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

I did a search & didn't come up with much. I'm getting ready to do a .90 class car for next year & was interested in the pros & cons of the air & electric blade systems or air cable/pedal systems. Is the pro style staging system really necessary for .90 classes? I already have some parts to an air system & a Pro Cube from a car I bought a few years ago. Sell & update or use what I have since this is new to me & I'm going to have to learn a system, any system???? Don't be bashful. If you are giving away top secret info PM or E-mail me.
Adger Smith
adgersperf@aol.com

I prefer under carb air on/air off, have had an inline and it wasnt nearly as consistent. If you use an inline you must have a pedal stop under gas pedal or consistency will suffer. Electric on /off is okay if your not killing a lot of hp. But the longer your on the stop the less prepped track your coming off the stop on.

Gary Federico

H.A.A.C. Racing · 11-13-2007, 02:52 PM

yeah, what the cute girl and the goofy guy said!

Henry S · 11-13-2007, 04:36 PM

Adger,
Here is my take on the pro's and con's for inline vs. under the carb type stops.
the pro's for inline is:
1. no power loss from adding another set of butterflies i.e. (restriction)
2. adjustability of opening and closing rates to control wheel spin etc.
3. greater adjustability of stop rpm, typically can go lower rpm with an inline vs an undercarb stop
4. hood clearance
5. gets an accelerator pump shot when opening
cons,s of inline
1. carb linkage very important for consistency
2. Air fuel ratio's change while on the stop more than on undercarb type stop
3. carb primary and secondary linkage type important 1.1 vs progressive
pro's for an undercarb stop
1. ease of use electrically
2. air/fuel ratio tends to stay more consistent throughout run.
3. if electric no variance due to bottle pressure and opening closing rates not changing
con's of undercarb
1. hood clearance may become an issue
2. some power loss
3. fuel puddling on the stop blades, can cause inconsistencies.

I have run both types and have won with both types. it usuallly is a matter of preference. a Great resource is to call #1 stops 319-277-5290(Gary) he has a wealth of good information.
As for systems go, you can't beat crewchief pro for prediction software along with altalabs weather stations

slow dragster · 11-14-2007, 01:19 PM

Dont be afraid of the plate stop under the carb. We did some extensive dyno time and found no change in HP. Myth i guess, We have an air plate stop and by far the most consistant. Get a number 1 stop and you wont go wrong.

rod butcher · 11-14-2007, 07:18 PM

On the dyno with plate stop lost 38 hp at the peak and 20 hp on the average. This was on 406 sbc making 754 @ 7400.

Mike Hedger · 11-14-2007, 08:50 PM

I only gave up 16 HP with my #1 base plate stop on a BBC with a 2" super sucker under it and a Dart intake. I think the HP loss has allot to due with the intake configuration.

I have run mine on both alcohol and gas with no changes except slicing the blades below the throttle shafts to keep the fuel from puddling up on the blades when the stop is on.

Also if you have allot of HP spend the extra to put the second air cyl. as well as the extra flow controls on both on and off. If you do this you will be able to get down any track around because you can control both directions of the cyl. action.

As far as air pressure you only need 80-90 PSI to operate the stop so as long as you have 200+ PSI in the bottle you can make a run without any problems. But always have a way to fill your bottle or carry a spare.

But whatever you do, ONLY BUY AN AIR STOP the electric is a good way to get into trouble on a bad track with allot of power.

On the pro stage I turn mine off when .90 racing I want to be the one matting the throttle not the box doing it when I depress the TB button.

Hope this helps, Mike

slow dragster · 11-14-2007, 09:17 PM

I think your going to see more loss at a lower HP motor. I think the intake is the key here. On my 565 it dyno'ed at 915HP 745 lb torque with out the stop. With the stop it was the same. The intake has been ported and hogged out to match the heads. Flowed the heads and then bolted the intake on it. There was a huge dif in flow with the stock configuration of the intake Edelbrock 2927. Spent about $300 on the intake to get the flow numbers back up. Hope this helps.

rod butcher · 11-15-2007, 12:08 PM

I think in my case its the carb thats the limiting factor in the horsepower loss. I am using a 750 holley (old reliable) and feel that this setup is consistant but alot smaller than it should be. I will be trying a new 1000 cfm carb and it should help in the hp loss. If nothing else it should be 20-25 hp stronger up top and the dyno will tell.

11-13-2007, 07:57 AM	#2
SSTHottie1236 Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bath, PA Posts: 136 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Air vs Electric stops On tricky tracks, it's nice to have the air-on/air-off throttle stops, the electic snaps back quicker and if the track isn't there you may be driving a little more than you'd like. The under the carb stops seem to be the most consistent but also more expensive and depending on which one you purchase, you could lose a substantial amount of horsepower (I've heard upwards of 40). However, I've won my fair share of rounds with the linkage setup so don't worry if the under the carb is not in the budget. As for the Pro Cube, we have one in both cars. My dad has had the same one in his car for 10 seasons and (knocking on lots and lots of wood right now) has never had a problem. We did however send it back to K&R this year just to have it updated so you could send it back to get a clean bill of health if it would make you feel more confident and they were great to deal with. Hope this helps! Kelli 1236 S/ST __________________ Kelli 1236 S/ST 1836 S/G

11-13-2007, 02:52 PM	#4
H.A.A.C. Racing Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 319 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Air vs Electric stops yeah, what the cute girl and the goofy guy said!

11-13-2007, 04:36 PM	#5
Henry S Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 79 Likes: 9 Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Air vs Electric stops Adger, Here is my take on the pro's and con's for inline vs. under the carb type stops. the pro's for inline is: 1. no power loss from adding another set of butterflies i.e. (restriction) 2. adjustability of opening and closing rates to control wheel spin etc. 3. greater adjustability of stop rpm, typically can go lower rpm with an inline vs an undercarb stop 4. hood clearance 5. gets an accelerator pump shot when opening cons,s of inline 1. carb linkage very important for consistency 2. Air fuel ratio's change while on the stop more than on undercarb type stop 3. carb primary and secondary linkage type important 1.1 vs progressive pro's for an undercarb stop 1. ease of use electrically 2. air/fuel ratio tends to stay more consistent throughout run. 3. if electric no variance due to bottle pressure and opening closing rates not changing con's of undercarb 1. hood clearance may become an issue 2. some power loss 3. fuel puddling on the stop blades, can cause inconsistencies. I have run both types and have won with both types. it usuallly is a matter of preference. a Great resource is to call #1 stops 319-277-5290(Gary) he has a wealth of good information. As for systems go, you can't beat crewchief pro for prediction software along with altalabs weather stations Last edited by Henry S; 11-13-2007 at 06:00 PM. Reason: fogot to add

11-14-2007, 01:19 PM	#6
slow dragster Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Spring Hill, TN Posts: 143 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Air vs Electric stops Dont be afraid of the plate stop under the carb. We did some extensive dyno time and found no change in HP. Myth i guess, We have an air plate stop and by far the most consistant. Get a number 1 stop and you wont go wrong.

11-14-2007, 07:18 PM	#7
rod butcher Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 248 Likes: 291 Liked 129 Times in 24 Posts	Re: Air vs Electric stops On the dyno with plate stop lost 38 hp at the peak and 20 hp on the average. This was on 406 sbc making 754 @ 7400.

11-13-2007, 12:45 AM	#1
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,348 Likes: 434 Liked 677 Times in 261 Posts	Air vs Electric stops I did a search & didn't come up with much. I'm getting ready to do a .90 class car for next year & was interested in the pros & cons of the air & electric blade systems or air cable/pedal systems. Is the pro style staging system really necessary for .90 classes? I already have some parts to an air system & a Pro Cube from a car I bought a few years ago. Sell & update or use what I have since this is new to me & I'm going to have to learn a system, any system???? Don't be bashful. If you are giving away top secret info PM or E-mail me. Adger Smith adgersperf@aol.com __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

11-14-2007, 08:50 PM	#8
Mike Hedger Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kemah TX Posts: 93 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Air vs Electric stops I only gave up 16 HP with my #1 base plate stop on a BBC with a 2" super sucker under it and a Dart intake. I think the HP loss has allot to due with the intake configuration. I have run mine on both alcohol and gas with no changes except slicing the blades below the throttle shafts to keep the fuel from puddling up on the blades when the stop is on. Also if you have allot of HP spend the extra to put the second air cyl. as well as the extra flow controls on both on and off. If you do this you will be able to get down any track around because you can control both directions of the cyl. action. As far as air pressure you only need 80-90 PSI to operate the stop so as long as you have 200+ PSI in the bottle you can make a run without any problems. But always have a way to fill your bottle or carry a spare. But whatever you do, ONLY BUY AN AIR STOP the electric is a good way to get into trouble on a bad track with allot of power. On the pro stage I turn mine off when .90 racing I want to be the one matting the throttle not the box doing it when I depress the TB button. Hope this helps, Mike __________________ Mike Hedger S/C 4646 MPH Racing and Fabrication Last edited by Mike Hedger; 11-14-2007 at 08:53 PM.

11-14-2007, 09:17 PM	#9
slow dragster Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Spring Hill, TN Posts: 143 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Air vs Electric stops I think your going to see more loss at a lower HP motor. I think the intake is the key here. On my 565 it dyno'ed at 915HP 745 lb torque with out the stop. With the stop it was the same. The intake has been ported and hogged out to match the heads. Flowed the heads and then bolted the intake on it. There was a huge dif in flow with the stock configuration of the intake Edelbrock 2927. Spent about $300 on the intake to get the flow numbers back up. Hope this helps.

11-15-2007, 12:08 PM	#10
rod butcher Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 248 Likes: 291 Liked 129 Times in 24 Posts	Re: Air vs Electric stops I think in my case its the carb thats the limiting factor in the horsepower loss. I am using a 750 holley (old reliable) and feel that this setup is consistant but alot smaller than it should be. I will be trying a new 1000 cfm carb and it should help in the hp loss. If nothing else it should be 20-25 hp stronger up top and the dyno will tell.