Ram cinterd iron clutch help

toddcalo · 09-15-2007, 07:11 PM

I have a ram long style pressure plate single sinterd iron disc I have the light springs I believe 340 to 900, I put 4 turns in ,should put me about 720 base pressure. I shaved some material off the levers where you would normaly add wieght. I have never ran this style disc before so im looking for some input.
I would like to leave at about 8000 shift at 8600 Im concerned at that launch rpm I may have to much cintrificul assist, should I back off a couple turns on the base or leave it where its at? Thanks

10.5 tires 2900#

Jeff Lee · 09-15-2007, 08:08 PM

4 turns at 180# per turn equals 720# PLUS the zero - turn base pressure of 320#'s = 1,040# is that correct? Plus at 8,600 RPM your cw has to be factored in, even if you have no weight on the levers. So with 1,040#'s + CW, it's a lot of pressure. Other factors that come into play: disk material, HP, weight of vehicle, lever heights, etc., etc. That being said, my own opinion is there needs to be some CW in order to reduce the BP. My experience w/ no CW is you have to run too much BP in order to not slip the disk excessively. How much CW and BP is dependant on the host of variables listed above. Have you tried less BP with some CW? I hate to sound like an advertisement but the best $ I ever spent on product and knowledgeable guidance is at with Rob Youngblood @ www.advancedclutches.com . The best thing about using the other clutch brand is it taught me about cause / effect relationships. But it didn't teach me necessarily how to get it right. 'bout the time I got the stomach hernia is when I stopped enjoyng bench pressing that tranny into place!
Does that help any?

Stick Racing · 09-15-2007, 09:35 PM

Whoa, buckaroo. Ram has 120# per turn, not 180#!

I assume this is your first iron disc and everything is NEW??!!....

I, personally, would put all 5 turns in and make two passes. Take one turn out.
Make another pass and take out 1 turn. Another pass, 1/2 turn. You should be getting close.
If the car is hitting the tires hard on the starting line, reduce base. If it slips going into high gear,
add counter weight.

I have discovered: Jerico's use less pressure than G-Force transmissions.
Ram uses less presssure than McLeod. (most times)
Ram uses iron pressure ring, McLeod uses aluminum. Heat makes this clutch work,
so everything you do from the temp your clutch is before you start the engine to the way
you do a burnout affects the way the car works.

Get your experience with the Ram set up and when you are ready for your next assembly, call Rob.

Andy Stone B/S 1102

toddcalo · 09-15-2007, 11:24 PM

Thanks jeff and andy , Jeff its 360 base with o turns 15# per rev 4 turns times 6 springs is 360 plus the original 360 should give me 720 total base. From Your experience is it a big help to have some kind of data logger, or like anything else is there a huge learning curve just to interpret the info you get.
I set the ring ht at 1.975 finger ht at .745 per rams suggestions. buy the way trans is a lenco 4 speed.

Ed Carpenter · 09-16-2007, 12:14 PM

I run the same Ram set-up you have. I started with a non-cw clutch. With this I had to much slippage in high gear. if you simply increase the base it will hit the tires to hard on the starting line and you will blow the tires off. I had mine changed over to a cw weighted clutch and it has alot more adjustablilty in it. 720 base is alot. If you put cw levers in it you will be able to drop that base way down. I too run the Ram because I don't have a boatload of cash to buy a high dollar unit at this time. Good luck.

Ed Carpenter

66 Chevy II

4244 SS/H

Jeff Lee · 09-16-2007, 01:11 PM

I took the original statement of 720# and divided the stede 4 turns into 720# to arrive at 180# per turn. That's why I put a question mark at the end.
But I have to admit, 15# per turn is beyond my level of comprehension! Why would (or how could?) a pressure plate spring only achieve 15# per complete turn yet have 320# as a base? I think a double check is in order.
Andy, why would a Jerico require a clutch with less pressure than a G-Force? Just curious, always wanting to learn more. I would assume what you are saying is the G-Force can shift easier with a lot of pressure whereas the Jerico requires less pressure to shift easy? But regardless of shifting, wouldn't either transmission yield quicker ET's with a softer clutch setting, assuming it is not excessively soft?

The proceedure Andy mentions to find your "sweet spot" on the clutch is correct. Personally I don't have a data logger. I'm just now upgrading to an Autometer Ultimate II with driveshaft record capability. So far it's all been adjusting and looking at the time slip...which means I've burnt up more clutches that I'd like to admitt. A data logger will allow you to sneak up on the ideal setting.

As I said in my first response, there are a lot of variables. Andy confirmed it with "Ram uses less presssure than McLeod. (most times) Ram uses iron pressure ring, McLeod uses aluminum. Heat makes this clutch work,
so everything you do from the temp your clutch is before you start the engine to the way
you do a burnout affects the way the car works."

toddcalo · 09-16-2007, 05:28 PM

Ed what rpm did you leave and shift at. how much base and extra counter wieght did you run?

Ed Carpenter · 09-16-2007, 08:48 PM

I leave at 6600 on the line and shift at 8200-8600 depending on track, temp, etc. Right now I have 360 base with a bolt and nut with 3 washers(aluminum) on the levers. (They sell a kit with these items). Three washers for my car is alot of cw. my car will pull the wheels in 3rd gear with 3. If you go to far you will split that Jerico down the middle. You will have to play with your combo to see what your car likes. Im still working on mine. Good Luck. Jeff when you bringing the AMC out again.

Ed Carpenter

66 Chevy II

4244 SS/H

toddcalo · 09-16-2007, 08:51 PM

Ed is the bolt aluminum or just the washers?

Jeff Lee · 09-16-2007, 09:03 PM

Toddcalo,
I think I understand MY confussion with your figures. Your stating 320# is your zero'ed out base and you have 15# per turn TIMES your six adjusters or 90# per turn. That makes more sense. Keep it consistant!

Ed, The AMX is getting some new floors as well as ladder bars and other refinements. Waiting on parts. I seriously doubt if I will see an NHRA event this year. Just as in Texas, it's too dang hot to get motivated to work on the car. It should be cooling off here considerably in the next 2-4 weeks. I'm sure I'll make the first of the NHRA tour thru AZ in '08. Think you'll be here in Phoenix? Maybe we should both go for the SS/H record @ Firebird (AZ)? I've never paired up with somebody in the other lane going for a record. That would definetly be exciting!!!

09-15-2007, 07:11 PM	#1
toddcalo Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ram cinterd iron clutch help I have a ram long style pressure plate single sinterd iron disc I have the light springs I believe 340 to 900, I put 4 turns in ,should put me about 720 base pressure. I shaved some material off the levers where you would normaly add wieght. I have never ran this style disc before so im looking for some input. I would like to leave at about 8000 shift at 8600 Im concerned at that launch rpm I may have to much cintrificul assist, should I back off a couple turns on the base or leave it where its at? Thanks 10.5 tires 2900#

09-15-2007, 08:08 PM	#2
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help 4 turns at 180# per turn equals 720# PLUS the zero - turn base pressure of 320#'s = 1,040# is that correct? Plus at 8,600 RPM your cw has to be factored in, even if you have no weight on the levers. So with 1,040#'s + CW, it's a lot of pressure. Other factors that come into play: disk material, HP, weight of vehicle, lever heights, etc., etc. That being said, my own opinion is there needs to be some CW in order to reduce the BP. My experience w/ no CW is you have to run too much BP in order to not slip the disk excessively. How much CW and BP is dependant on the host of variables listed above. Have you tried less BP with some CW? I hate to sound like an advertisement but the best $ I ever spent on product and knowledgeable guidance is at with Rob Youngblood @ www.advancedclutches.com . The best thing about using the other clutch brand is it taught me about cause / effect relationships. But it didn't teach me necessarily how to get it right. 'bout the time I got the stomach hernia is when I stopped enjoyng bench pressing that tranny into place! Does that help any? __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

09-15-2007, 09:35 PM	#3
Stick Racing Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 169 Likes: 4 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help Whoa, buckaroo. Ram has 120# per turn, not 180#! I assume this is your first iron disc and everything is NEW??!!.... I, personally, would put all 5 turns in and make two passes. Take one turn out. Make another pass and take out 1 turn. Another pass, 1/2 turn. You should be getting close. If the car is hitting the tires hard on the starting line, reduce base. If it slips going into high gear, add counter weight. I have discovered: Jerico's use less pressure than G-Force transmissions. Ram uses less presssure than McLeod. (most times) Ram uses iron pressure ring, McLeod uses aluminum. Heat makes this clutch work, so everything you do from the temp your clutch is before you start the engine to the way you do a burnout affects the way the car works. Get your experience with the Ram set up and when you are ready for your next assembly, call Rob. Andy Stone B/S 1102

09-15-2007, 11:24 PM	#4
toddcalo Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help Thanks jeff and andy , Jeff its 360 base with o turns 15# per rev 4 turns times 6 springs is 360 plus the original 360 should give me 720 total base. From Your experience is it a big help to have some kind of data logger, or like anything else is there a huge learning curve just to interpret the info you get. I set the ring ht at 1.975 finger ht at .745 per rams suggestions. buy the way trans is a lenco 4 speed.

09-16-2007, 12:14 PM	#5
Ed Carpenter Live Reporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dripping Springs, Tx Posts: 2,697 Likes: 185 Liked 502 Times in 125 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help I run the same Ram set-up you have. I started with a non-cw clutch. With this I had to much slippage in high gear. if you simply increase the base it will hit the tires to hard on the starting line and you will blow the tires off. I had mine changed over to a cw weighted clutch and it has alot more adjustablilty in it. 720 base is alot. If you put cw levers in it you will be able to drop that base way down. I too run the Ram because I don't have a boatload of cash to buy a high dollar unit at this time. Good luck. Ed Carpenter 66 Chevy II 4244 SS/H

09-16-2007, 01:11 PM	#6
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help I took the original statement of 720# and divided the stede 4 turns into 720# to arrive at 180# per turn. That's why I put a question mark at the end. But I have to admit, 15# per turn is beyond my level of comprehension! Why would (or how could?) a pressure plate spring only achieve 15# per complete turn yet have 320# as a base? I think a double check is in order. Andy, why would a Jerico require a clutch with less pressure than a G-Force? Just curious, always wanting to learn more. I would assume what you are saying is the G-Force can shift easier with a lot of pressure whereas the Jerico requires less pressure to shift easy? But regardless of shifting, wouldn't either transmission yield quicker ET's with a softer clutch setting, assuming it is not excessively soft? The proceedure Andy mentions to find your "sweet spot" on the clutch is correct. Personally I don't have a data logger. I'm just now upgrading to an Autometer Ultimate II with driveshaft record capability. So far it's all been adjusting and looking at the time slip...which means I've burnt up more clutches that I'd like to admitt. A data logger will allow you to sneak up on the ideal setting. As I said in my first response, there are a lot of variables. Andy confirmed it with "Ram uses less presssure than McLeod. (most times) Ram uses iron pressure ring, McLeod uses aluminum. Heat makes this clutch work, so everything you do from the temp your clutch is before you start the engine to the way you do a burnout affects the way the car works." __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX Last edited by Jeff Lee; 09-16-2007 at 01:20 PM.

09-16-2007, 05:28 PM	#7
toddcalo Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help Ed what rpm did you leave and shift at. how much base and extra counter wieght did you run?

09-16-2007, 08:48 PM	#8
Ed Carpenter Live Reporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dripping Springs, Tx Posts: 2,697 Likes: 185 Liked 502 Times in 125 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help I leave at 6600 on the line and shift at 8200-8600 depending on track, temp, etc. Right now I have 360 base with a bolt and nut with 3 washers(aluminum) on the levers. (They sell a kit with these items). Three washers for my car is alot of cw. my car will pull the wheels in 3rd gear with 3. If you go to far you will split that Jerico down the middle. You will have to play with your combo to see what your car likes. Im still working on mine. Good Luck. Jeff when you bringing the AMC out again. Ed Carpenter 66 Chevy II 4244 SS/H

09-16-2007, 08:51 PM	#9
toddcalo Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help Ed is the bolt aluminum or just the washers?

09-16-2007, 09:03 PM	#10
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Ram cinterd iron clutch help Toddcalo, I think I understand MY confussion with your figures. Your stating 320# is your zero'ed out base and you have 15# per turn TIMES your six adjusters or 90# per turn. That makes more sense. Keep it consistant! Ed, The AMX is getting some new floors as well as ladder bars and other refinements. Waiting on parts. I seriously doubt if I will see an NHRA event this year. Just as in Texas, it's too dang hot to get motivated to work on the car. It should be cooling off here considerably in the next 2-4 weeks. I'm sure I'll make the first of the NHRA tour thru AZ in '08. Think you'll be here in Phoenix? Maybe we should both go for the SS/H record @ Firebird (AZ)? I've never paired up with somebody in the other lane going for a record. That would definetly be exciting!!! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX Last edited by Jeff Lee; 09-16-2007 at 09:06 PM.