1968 Dodge Darts (Factory SS/EA 440's)

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Bob Pagano

Hay Bill, Left yourself wide open. "You wouldn't waste your time" but you spend countless days yelling about a crap red light BS Go figure. I would rather talk to Alex.

You like listening to fairytales, Bob? Get him to tell you his unexpurgated version of how the FE/C4, "never-never" Ford OEM bell housing came to be. You may change youir mind...

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Alex Denysenko

More erroneous information.
Dennis Hirschbach, the former parts manager of GSD from 66 through 76 is still alive and a friend of mine.
We both laugh at many of your GSS references Paul.
The engines were not installed by Hurst, they were factory built.
Another ubran legend created by the Hurst marketing arm of the time.
Probably the same group who said Hurst installed the 455's the Oldsmobiles as well.

If it comes down to believing written facts or some part guy's memory then I'll take the facts and if I have to believe a guy's words it would be Al K's over anyone.

JimR

[Jeff Lee]

Apparently Alex or somebody provided the documentation to NHRA. NHRA accepted it, published it and the racers live by it.
The first step somebody took was "submitting a letter" to NHRA. That Bill Dedman, is something I don't you doing. Capable? yes. Doing? That seems to be another story.
And with all your preach of civility on the red light issue, why in the same month do you come to this thread and go out of your way to defame somebody?
Just one more instance were you put your nose where it doesn't belong.
As I recall, you were a newspaper editor? If so, it all fits.

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Apparently Alex or somebody provided the documentation to NHRA. NHRA accepted it, published it and the racers live by it.
The first step somebody took was "submitting a letter" to NHRA. That Bill Dedman, is something I don't you doing. Capable? yes. Doing? That seems to be another story.
And with all your preach of civility on the red light issue, why in the same month do you come to this thread and go out of your way to defame somebody?
Just one more instance were you put your nose where it doesn't belong.
As I recall, you were a newspaper editor? If so, it all fits.

Yes, the documentation was approved by NHRA, and everything else you say is true including the fact that NHRA acceptance has paved the way for yet another bogus part to find its way onto the "legal" status in NHRA's "paper car" list of "gee-whiz/never -knew-that" litany of mytholigical parts that seem to materialize, from time-to-time.

What you don't seem to understand about my intererest in this, and my comments relative to it, is this: I have NO PROBLEM with the C-4/F-E bellhousing, how it got accepted by NHRA, who was involved in getting it "legalized," or anything else about it.

I fully support a bellhousing such as this for Ford BECAUSE of the GM cars, near-comprehensive interchangability of transmissions such as Metric 200s/350 T-H's/400 TH's, et al, on different blocks, and the ability to use Torqueflite 904 internals in a 727 case, enabling the low-drag 904 mechanical drivetrain hooked to a B or RB Mopar engine, legally. I have never objected to a C-4 bellhousing that would enable the "small transmission" connection to the FE motors. Never.

What I DO object to is being led down the primrose path by Alex , using a crock-and-bull story that had NO basis in fact, but was presented to me as the "real story" about how those hacked-up-and welded bell housings came to be.

I don't like being lied to.

If you think I came on here to "defame" Alex, you're wrong. I have a ton of respect for him AND his brother, and will never forget the monumental effort put forth to bring about the "CLASS RACER NATIONALS" and its successful conclusion against all odds.

No, there's no defamation in facts. I was just sorry that he would find it necessary to use his more-than-fertile imagination to fabricate such a tortuous and unnecessary story about how that bellhousing came into being.

I was born in the morning, but it was not yesterday morning.

Let me reiterate; I am GLAD the FE Ford cars have access to the C4; I think it's only fair, given the almost unlimited access the G.M. cars, and big-block Mopars have to the smaller, low drag transmissions.

But, if you wnt to be entertained, just ask Alex how that FE/C4 bell housing became a legitimate part...

Myself, I'd rather have the truth. Well, he'll probably tell YOU the truth...

Insofar as "submitting a letter to NHRA," (and, this is relative to my "blabbering" about the red light rule change,) I have told you and several others on this board, more than once (actually, I think it's more like 3 or 4 times) that RIGHT NOW is NOT a good time to be doing this, and I have listed several reasons why. I think, however, that the notes that explained why it needs to be done, were a good way to spread the word about why it's unfair to treat different cars differently with regard to red light jeopardy...

I must not be the only one who believes that, because the thread disappeared in a puff of paranoia, although it was I believe, the second (or, third?) most popular thread EVER on this BB.

Gee, I wonder who was afraid it was gaining traction to the extent that it was possibly going to actually have a chance of becoming "law," which would not have been a good thing is one were running a AA/SA car..... hmmmmmm.....

Can't see any other reason for deleting an entire thread that had so much participation...

Another thing; I worked for the newspaper industry for 40 years, but never in the Editorial department. I worked as a foreman in the Production department for the Des Moines Register (16 years) and the San Francisco Chronicle (24 years.) Blue collar guy...

And, there's only one "A" in Dedman.


Then, lastly, there's this:

"Just one more instance were you put your nose where it doesn't belong."

What was the first one? This BB was designed by Ken Miele for people to post notes who aren't currently "Class" Racers. That's ME. I have two Bracket cars (one finished, one 80-percent done,) BOTH of which are 100% subject to the red light rules as they are practiced and enforced in Class racing. I don't know of ANY tracks currently utizing a double red light system, on ANY kind of handicap racing.

But, if NHRA should (fat chance) go to a double red light system, you can bet your booties, all the other tracks will, too. So, it's within my (and everybody else's) interest, to see that it gets changed.

In view of the fact that this new system would give an advantage to NOBODY, (and, that's a fact!) how could any fair-minded person, object????

[borninamopar]

Dammit, I was getting interested in the 68 Darts with the 440's in them because I know you could get the car as an M code in 69, and now ya'll started discussing Fords, what the hell, let's get back to the Darts. Is the combo (the 68) legal for stock or not?

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by borninamopar

Dammit, I was getting interested in the 68 Darts with the 440's in them because I know you could get the car as an M code in 69, and now ya'll started discussing Fords, what the hell, let's get back to the Darts. Is the combo (the 68) legal for stock or not?

Sorry; my bad. Is tyhe car you want to race in the online NHRA stock car classification guide? I would think that is it's in the guide, the guide will show the factored horsepower-to-shipping weight ratio to demonstrate what class it will naturlly fall into.

If it's not in the classification guide with that engine, then I'd think it can't be run with that engine... Unless, there's a mistake. Take a look....

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by borninamopar

Dammit, I was getting interested in the 68 Darts with the 440's in them because I know you could get the car as an M code in 69, and now ya'll started discussing Fords, what the hell, let's get back to the Darts. Is the combo (the 68) legal for stock or not?

No. But it IS legal for SS in a GTS 2 dr HDTP or convertible.
SS factor is 8.89 / shipping weight is 3208 / factored HP is 361 for Hdtp.

[SStockDart]

Jeff is exactly right. Can not run a 68 in Stock eliminator. Our 68 Dart can run SS/E-GA.

Gary Hansen
SS/EA 4911

[borninamopar]

Thanks Bill, Jeff and Gary. I was following this thread with interest, hoping a 440 could go in my old 68, but it is not in the classification guide...Oh well. In 69 trim I don't think it would be very competitive..I have been talked out of finishing the Dakota for stock, and that leaves me with the 64 Dodge or the 65 Valiant. The 65 Valiant is looking tempting, since I believe that I read the HP has been lowered to 210 by NHRA. Really low shipping weight too. Plan on having something ready by next year. I can't bring myself to turn my 64 into a racer. Thanks for clarifying some points.

[Jeff Lee]

What is wrong with converting to a '69?