Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

[Darrel Goheen]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

We both know Gary is mistaken, don't we Darrel?

I wouldn't consider myself an expert tuner but I don't see how going to a carburetor can improve ET over a properly tuned EFI. I also understand EFI will not out perform a well tuned carburetor as far as power. After a year of EFI experience I don't care to work on another carburetor. I just put a Sniper EFI on my 427 BBC 67 Chevelle ET car. After install my first start consisted of reaching through the window and turning the key only. That's never happened with a cold start before and not always with a warm engine either. I'm not expecting a quicker ET. I'm hoping for more consistency.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Darrel Goheen

How will dumping EFI to go to a carburetor make that much difference in ET?

Because unlike cars like yours that had a V8 baseline to tune from, there was no such blessing upon my 60 degree V6 to tune from, so that's one BIG difference! I recall when the FI classes were created, they were instantly dominating the A-H classes in Stock. Since I'm not well versed in computer tuning and I know the awesome power produced by the (especially 500cfm) Holley carbs, tuning one of them would be easier than figuring out the multitude of adjustments needed to make my car run quick enough to run Pro!

What I might otherwise do if/when the funds allow, is take my car to a shop I know of here in southeast Phoenix that specializes in tuning computer controlled cars. I'm sure it'll cost a pretty penny, but they'll wake up my computers set-up to where I may not need to do the above, and it'll be Stock legal with or without Stock Eliminator.....once I get the funds look out!!!!

So nice try, but I'm not kidding....

[Darrel Goheen]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

Because unlike cars like yours that had a V8 baseline to tune from, there was no such blessing upon my 60 degree V6 to tune from, so that's one BIG difference! I recall when the FI classes were created, they were instantly dominating the A-H classes in Stock. Since I'm not well versed in computer tuning and I know the awesome power produced by the (especially 500cfm) Holley carbs, tuning one of them would be easier than figuring out the multitude of adjustments needed to make my car run quick enough to run Pro!

What I might otherwise do if/when the funds allow, is take my car to a shop I know of here in southeast Phoenix that specializes in tuning computer controlled cars. I'm sure it'll cost a pretty penny, but they'll wake up my computers set-up to where I may not need to do the above, and it'll be Stock legal with or without Stock Eliminator.....once I get the funds look out!!!!

So nice try, but I'm not kidding....

It doesn't matter to me what you do but I'd sure think getting someone to tune your car as is would be much less expensive and have better results than changing to a carburetor.

[Mark Yacavone]

Gary,
The car should run 13.90's in DF/S.
It's a better car than ours. Ours ran 13.90's
Your car is about 900 pounds lighter.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by Darrel Goheen

I'm not expecting a quicker ET. I'm hoping for more consistency.

Yeah Darrel, it's about time you achieve something with that Chevelle!

[Ed Wright]

Don't expect one to run faster with EFI.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

Because unlike cars like yours that had a V8 baseline to tune from, there was no such blessing upon my 60 degree V6 to tune from, so that's one BIG difference! I recall when the FI classes were created, they were instantly dominating the A-H classes in Stock. Since I'm not well versed in computer tuning and I know the awesome power produced by the (especially 500cfm) Holley carbs, tuning one of them would be easier than figuring out the multitude of adjustments needed to make my car run quick enough to run Pro!

What I might otherwise do if/when the funds allow, is take my car to a shop I know of here in southeast Phoenix that specializes in tuning computer controlled cars. I'm sure it'll cost a pretty penny, but they'll wake up my computers set-up to where I may not need to do the above, and it'll be Stock legal with or without Stock Eliminator.....once I get the funds look out!!!!

So nice try, but I'm not kidding....

Gary, I'm not sure what baseline V8 tune your talking about. With factory computers, as your car came with, the "baseline tune" is in the computer. That is what we begin with when using the factory computer. I don't remember, does that engine have a distributor?

[JRyan]

Originally Posted by Darrel Goheen

I wouldn't consider myself an expert tuner but I don't see how going to a carburetor can improve ET over a properly tuned EFI. I also understand EFI will not out perform a well tuned carburetor as far as power. After a year of EFI experience I don't care to work on another carburetor. I just put a Sniper EFI on my 427 BBC 67 Chevelle ET car. After install my first start consisted of reaching through the window and turning the key only. That's never happened with a cold start before and not always with a warm engine either. I'm not expecting a quicker ET. I'm hoping for more consistency.

Haha! Couldn't agree with you more Darrel. Must be starting to like that Holley system. I know after a year of playing with mine on my turbo street car. My stocker that's being converted back to a street car is now getting a CNP conversion with a Holley HP and if I could afford to scrap my super stock engine combination I'd be building something using EFI as well. I'd much rather play around tuning on the laptop then pulling carbs apart and changing things.

Rick

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Darrel Goheen

It doesn't matter to me what you do but I'd sure think getting someone to tune your car as is would be much less expensive and have better results than changing to a carburetor.

I'm sure you're correct, but given my level of mechanics training was from back in the 70's when FI didn't exist first of all, and the Tech school I went to then was a 9 month long joke that wasn't funny, the best thing that came out of that now defunct tech school was a tool box (that was stolen from me by some low-life(s) at Bandimere Speedway back on July 3, 1993)!!!!

My level of mechanics training thus didn't include modern day computer systems, and as I said earlier, if my system had a baseline to tune off of, I'd be a lot better off than I am, but I tune by trial and error, and if I make an adjustment that makes the engine sound more lively, then I unplug the computer and go up to make a run to see if it helped and by how much. I said what I did about the carburetor, because I was better skilled at adjusting points, timing, and changing jets, than I am about acceleration enrichment, and other adjustment stuff like that. Furthermore, Accel no longer manufactures the Calmap system that I bought back in the mid-90's, so getting the tuning software isn't possible anymore.....if you know someone who has that particular software, clue me in so I can get a disk of it for my laptop?

However, I also recall saying that I could (when money allows me), take my car to this shop in Queen Creek, Az., that could possibly tune it up for me. I have always been better at driving than wrenching anyway (unless it's easy stuff like plugs, wires, and oil). I see how much quicker the Pro-Stockers are running with FI over carbs, but they also have computer savvy mechanics (which I don't, and am not)! Thus I'll deal with the hand I have until the funds come my way to visit that shop.

Mark your car runs so great inspite of its extra 900lbs over my car, because you're a sharp tool in the shed, that I'm not! Perhaps if you or Billy Nees were tuning my car, it would be as quick as yours, but you're not. Thus I'll race my car as is until my budget allows me to invest in those items. The economy and wages as opposed to the cost of living aren't as good today as they were 20yrs ago, and that's the last time I had $1k + to invest in things like the Calmap, and even building the car from street to how it is now! I recall racing was a lot less expensive then than it is now, so less money for that and things like custom headers (that I know would help my car by nearly .4 sec), but again $1k plus for headers for a 6cyl, when V8 street headers are less than half of that? I'll deal with what I have and continue to be one of the racers still racing, until or unless class racing goes the way of Modified Eliminator (or I win a 5-6 digit PCH prize)...which I hope it never will!!!!

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Gary, I'm not sure what baseline V8 tune your talking about. With factory computers, as your car came with, the "baseline tune" is in the computer. That is what we begin with when using the factory computer. I don't remember, does that engine have a distributor?

Ed I'm not referring to factory computers, I'm referring to the aftermarket computer systems such as the Accel Calmap system I purchased back in the mid-90's. With my factory computer system, I recall putting a 350 V8 chip in my factory box, and from idle to 2400rpm, my engine sounded so strong, that I could've had my car running AF/SA back in the 90's! However, the set-up of that chip from 2400 on was too much for my engine, so it didn't work. I sent over $100 bucks to a computer chip company that I asked to burn me a chip that would make my engine as lively over 2400rpm's on as that factory 350 truck V8 chip did, and I'd be happy as all get out! They couldn't do it, so I scrapped my factory computer and gave the Calmap a try. Thanks to computer savvy people such as Woodro Josey, V8 FI racers had a baseline to tune their computers off of, but there was no-one to set such a baseline for engines like mine....that's what I was talking about.