Stocker Cam Question

Alan Warman · 09-14-2009, 11:38 PM

A lot of my questions was answered in the stock valve lift thread. The problem I am having is I just got my car running and was at a test&tune, and lost a lobe off the cam, it had 19 passes on it. I found out what I did wrong, boy that was a expensive lesson. The cam was Bullet cam with Sherman lifters for a 307 Olds. I was thinking about buying a set of Smith Machine lifters, are they that beneficial. Do you need to prep the cam any certain why. Like having it Cryogenic and the REM finish but on it. I really would like not to do this again.

Jeff Lee · 09-15-2009, 01:08 AM

Send your cam and whatever lifters you choose to www.machdevelopment.com They can set you up with reasonably priced "hydraulic" lifters. They will coat the cam and lifters with a proprietary coating. They have tested successfully coatings on these parts using race stocker springs and engine at idle on initial start up with no wear.
Sorry about your problem, but if it makes you feel better, your not the only one with this problem. Take the engine COMPLETELY apart. Trust me, I learned that one the hard way after a Schubeck lifter exploded on me. Thought a pan drop and a good cleaning would suffice...wrong!

Alan Roehrich · 09-15-2009, 05:12 AM

Jeff is correct. Any cam/lifter failure means the entire engine needs to come down, all the way to a bare block. The metal from that failure is in the oil, and everywhere oil went, that metal is present. The only way to remove all of it, and keep it from causing other failures, is to tear all the way down and clean it all completely. It will even embed itself into the piston skirts, and unless you get it all out of there, it will continue to ruin the cylinder wall finish, and a good set of rings will never seat or stay seated.

Competition Cams has an in house gas nitriding treatment, they get $100 to do a cam you buy from them.

We still run the three sets of Shubeck lifters we've had for a few years.

Some are having luck with the PPPC tool steel lifters, as well as the PRI lifters. Several have had problems with the DLC coating coming off. PRI prefers to have you send them your cam, they polish your cam until it looks like it has been chrome plated. It still requires a regular break in process.

Alan Warman · 09-15-2009, 12:21 PM

Thanks guys,I new I had to tear it down and clean every thing. I see guys all the time just put in another cam and lifters and go, my luck is not that good. What we think went wrong, was the I way I was adjusting the valves. Since I am a old mopar guy, I did it the mopar way. Kirk at Bullet thanks I was not all the way on the heel of the cam. Witch resulted in to much lash. My spring pressure is about 365 over the nose, and I used Royal Purple brake in oil. The engine was a pain in the a#% to adjust the valves on.The Sherman lifters said to adjust to zero to -.005 lash.The car would not run adjusted that why,had to back off to +.005 to get it to run. It run well with just 19 passes on it,I went six tenths under my index. Alan,I could not find PRI or PPPC on th web.

Alan Roehrich · 09-15-2009, 01:03 PM

Performance Research Incorporated, and Precision Performance Products Company.

greg fulk · 09-15-2009, 06:22 PM

what rocker arm set-up do you have????

Alan Warman · 09-15-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg fulk

what rocker arm set-up do you have????

Greg
I run stock rocker arms made by Crane. I use the steel fulcrums with the steel strap across the top with 3/8 studs.The push rods are adjustable witch are a pain in the a%# to adjust. Haven't had any trouble out of the valve train yet, but with my luck that don't mean much. Was thinking about putting on guild plates,and splitting the steel strap and installing poly locks to adjust them. That way I could get rid of the adjustable push rods and save a little weight.What kind of set up are you running.

Jeff Lee · 09-15-2009, 11:39 PM

I have tried the mopar "rotate the engine 90 more degree" method many times on a stocker cam and it has bitten me every time. A stocker cam is so radical on the ramps I don't think it can work. And don't even think about using the starter motor to bump it around. I also speak from experience. I do lots of things the wrong way, eventually I get it.

My advice is EOIC method, crank the engine with a socket wrench and do one cylinder at a time.
Like you, I have never found negative lash or pre-load to work. I like .003" to .005" using go-no-go with the feeler gauges. Too much and it's brutal on the valve train. Too tight and you risk not closing the valve. This is with NHRA legal solid type hydraulic lifters.

Chris Hill · 09-16-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Warman

Thanks guys,I new I had to tear it down and clean every thing. I see guys all the time just put in another cam and lifters and go, my luck is not that good. What we think went wrong, was the I way I was adjusting the valves. Since I am a old mopar guy, I did it the mopar way. Kirk at Bullet thanks I was not all the way on the heel of the cam. Witch resulted in to much lash. My spring pressure is about 365 over the nose, and I used Royal Purple brake in oil. The engine was a pain in the a#% to adjust the valves on.The Sherman lifters said to adjust to zero to -.005 lash.The car would not run adjusted that why,had to back off to +.005 to get it to run. It run well with just 19 passes on it,I went six tenths under my index. Alan,I could not find PRI or PPPC on th web.

Did the lobe wear out on the opening flank or at peak lift?

RockyJ · 09-16-2009, 11:14 AM

Chris: Are you getting old or what? Allready forgot our conversation of
a year ago. Go to 21tek.com to see the solution then ask ron mattson.

09-14-2009, 11:38 PM	#1
Alan Warman Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Angelo Tx Posts: 231 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stocker Cam Question A lot of my questions was answered in the stock valve lift thread. The problem I am having is I just got my car running and was at a test&tune, and lost a lobe off the cam, it had 19 passes on it. I found out what I did wrong, boy that was a expensive lesson. The cam was Bullet cam with Sherman lifters for a 307 Olds. I was thinking about buying a set of Smith Machine lifters, are they that beneficial. Do you need to prep the cam any certain why. Like having it Cryogenic and the REM finish but on it. I really would like not to do this again. __________________ Alan Warman STK 4107

09-15-2009, 01:08 AM	#2
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Send your cam and whatever lifters you choose to www.machdevelopment.com They can set you up with reasonably priced "hydraulic" lifters. They will coat the cam and lifters with a proprietary coating. They have tested successfully coatings on these parts using race stocker springs and engine at idle on initial start up with no wear. Sorry about your problem, but if it makes you feel better, your not the only one with this problem. Take the engine COMPLETELY apart. Trust me, I learned that one the hard way after a Schubeck lifter exploded on me. Thought a pan drop and a good cleaning would suffice...wrong! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

09-15-2009, 05:12 AM	#3
Alan Roehrich VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 4,915 Likes: 997 Liked 1,045 Times in 275 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Jeff is correct. Any cam/lifter failure means the entire engine needs to come down, all the way to a bare block. The metal from that failure is in the oil, and everywhere oil went, that metal is present. The only way to remove all of it, and keep it from causing other failures, is to tear all the way down and clean it all completely. It will even embed itself into the piston skirts, and unless you get it all out of there, it will continue to ruin the cylinder wall finish, and a good set of rings will never seat or stay seated. Competition Cams has an in house gas nitriding treatment, they get $100 to do a cam you buy from them. We still run the three sets of Shubeck lifters we've had for a few years. Some are having luck with the PPPC tool steel lifters, as well as the PRI lifters. Several have had problems with the DLC coating coming off. PRI prefers to have you send them your cam, they polish your cam until it looks like it has been chrome plated. It still requires a regular break in process. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

09-15-2009, 12:21 PM	#4
Alan Warman Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Angelo Tx Posts: 231 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Thanks guys,I new I had to tear it down and clean every thing. I see guys all the time just put in another cam and lifters and go, my luck is not that good. What we think went wrong, was the I way I was adjusting the valves. Since I am a old mopar guy, I did it the mopar way. Kirk at Bullet thanks I was not all the way on the heel of the cam. Witch resulted in to much lash. My spring pressure is about 365 over the nose, and I used Royal Purple brake in oil. The engine was a pain in the a#% to adjust the valves on.The Sherman lifters said to adjust to zero to -.005 lash.The car would not run adjusted that why,had to back off to +.005 to get it to run. It run well with just 19 passes on it,I went six tenths under my index. Alan,I could not find PRI or PPPC on th web. __________________ Alan Warman STK 4107

09-15-2009, 01:03 PM	#5
Alan Roehrich VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 4,915 Likes: 997 Liked 1,045 Times in 275 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Performance Research Incorporated, and Precision Performance Products Company. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

09-15-2009, 06:22 PM	#6
greg fulk VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: jackson Posts: 1,165 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question what rocker arm set-up do you have???? __________________ Greg Fulk 308 308X P/SA "ALL AMERICAN"

09-15-2009, 11:39 PM	#8
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question I have tried the mopar "rotate the engine 90 more degree" method many times on a stocker cam and it has bitten me every time. A stocker cam is so radical on the ramps I don't think it can work. And don't even think about using the starter motor to bump it around. I also speak from experience. I do lots of things the wrong way, eventually I get it. My advice is EOIC method, crank the engine with a socket wrench and do one cylinder at a time. Like you, I have never found negative lash or pre-load to work. I like .003" to .005" using go-no-go with the feeler gauges. Too much and it's brutal on the valve train. Too tight and you risk not closing the valve. This is with NHRA legal solid type hydraulic lifters. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

09-16-2009, 11:14 AM	#10
RockyJ Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 47 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Chris: Are you getting old or what? Allready forgot our conversation of a year ago. Go to 21tek.com to see the solution then ask ron mattson.