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Old 07-05-2016, 10:58 PM   #11
Coleydog
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Default Re: couple of questions concerning stock eliminator rules

Concerning the heads and intake, a few calculations here. You got a 3200 lbs, or more, car running the big numbers, it takes X amount of HP (cfm) to put that number on the board. That should answer your question about the heads. I imagine the NHRA tech guys have a very hard time keeping ahead of the curve because of the crafty racers out there working all the angles to beat you heads up.
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:23 AM   #12
Dwight Southerland
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Default Re: couple of questions concerning stock eliminator rules

An overall philosophical perspective that will help you grasp the rulebook for Stock eliminator is to understand that the rulebook is describing what modifications are allowed to an assembly line produced vehicle as it is manufactured and sold to the general public. The rulebook used to have a statement that basically said that it was written in a positive direction, that is it tells you what you can do, rather than a negative direction, telling you what you cannot do. So going back to one of your original questions about rack and pinion steering, if the rulebook does not say you can replace the stock steering with rack and pinion, then you cannot. Think of your car as it would have been driving around on the streets, then apply the rules about what you can do to it to compete in Stock classes. That is basic to understanding what Stock class racing is about.


Your questioning about the cylinder heads is legitimate. It is still an area of criticism, confusion and sometimes downright shame when it comes to "doing what is right". The current set of rules provides a very liberal set of modifications in comparison to what the original three angle valve job was defined. It is difficult to technically prove that some of the highly sophisticated techniques you will hear discussed have been applied, even when someone with lots of experience with cylinder heads "knows" that work has been done. People with big egos and little integrity have taken advantage of the nature of judgment calls versus legal proof and so there is a window for such people to apply their greed and deceit and thus make it seem like there are no rules as long as you can get away it. Such a shame. We all have suffered. The advice to have your heads done by someone who is familiar and successful in building stock eliminator heads is not bad advice.
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:38 PM   #13
Dissident
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Default Re: couple of questions concerning stock eliminator rules

Mr Coleydog - I am quite familiar with airflow analysis, thus my comments about cylinder heads and after having seen some head stuff generated my comments. Thanks.

Mr. Southerland - Your comments are genuinely appreciated. A truly honest response. I am a member of your tech site and that is a very handy service you provide, thanks so much.

Regards to all that have tried to be of assistance,
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Old 07-06-2016, 04:28 PM   #14
Bill Diehl
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Default Re: couple of questions concerning stock eliminator rules

there are certain "factory" stock cylinder heads that are light years ahead of others...with just the "right" simple valve job they will move more air than some others that have 100's of aftermarket heads created for them... aftermarket heads that I mentioned are not legal but, never the less... it does tend to hurt some feelings when brand A outperforms brand B. so...to even the score some will resort to the Cheating bastard cabinet that you speak of because there ego can't stand getting beat by the other brand
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:57 AM   #15
Michael K
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Default Re: couple of questions concerning stock eliminator rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland View Post
An overall philosophical perspective that will help you grasp the rulebook for Stock eliminator is to understand that the rulebook is describing what modifications are allowed to an assembly line produced vehicle as it is manufactured and sold to the general public. The rulebook used to have a statement that basically said that it was written in a positive direction, that is it tells you what you can do, rather than a negative direction, telling you what you cannot do. So going back to one of your original questions about rack and pinion steering, if the rulebook does not say you can replace the stock steering with rack and pinion, then you cannot. Think of your car as it would have been driving around on the streets, then apply the rules about what you can do to it to compete in Stock classes. That is basic to understanding what Stock class racing is about.


Your questioning about the cylinder heads is legitimate. It is still an area of criticism, confusion and sometimes downright shame when it comes to "doing what is right". The current set of rules provides a very liberal set of modifications in comparison to what the original three angle valve job was defined. It is difficult to technically prove that some of the highly sophisticated techniques you will hear discussed have been applied, even when someone with lots of experience with cylinder heads "knows" that work has been done. People with big egos and little integrity have taken advantage of the nature of judgment calls versus legal proof and so there is a window for such people to apply their greed and deceit and thus make it seem like there are no rules as long as you can get away it. Such a shame. We all have suffered. The advice to have your heads done by someone who is familiar and successful in building stock eliminator heads is not bad advice.





My compliments on such a straightforward and informative answer.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:29 PM   #16
Ed Wright
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Default Re: couple of questions concerning stock eliminator rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland View Post
An overall philosophical perspective that will help you grasp the rulebook for Stock eliminator is to understand that the rulebook is describing what modifications are allowed to an assembly line produced vehicle as it is manufactured and sold to the general public. The rulebook used to have a statement that basically said that it was written in a positive direction, that is it tells you what you can do, rather than a negative direction, telling you what you cannot do. So going back to one of your original questions about rack and pinion steering, if the rulebook does not say you can replace the stock steering with rack and pinion, then you cannot. Think of your car as it would have been driving around on the streets, then apply the rules about what you can do to it to compete in Stock classes. That is basic to understanding what Stock class racing is about.


Your questioning about the cylinder heads is legitimate. It is still an area of criticism, confusion and sometimes downright shame when it comes to "doing what is right". The current set of rules provides a very liberal set of modifications in comparison to what the original three angle valve job was defined. It is difficult to technically prove that some of the highly sophisticated techniques you will hear discussed have been applied, even when someone with lots of experience with cylinder heads "knows" that work has been done. People with big egos and little integrity have taken advantage of the nature of judgment calls versus legal proof and so there is a window for such people to apply their greed and deceit and thus make it seem like there are no rules as long as you can get away it. Such a shame. We all have suffered. The advice to have your heads done by someone who is familiar and successful in building stock eliminator heads is not bad advice.
Very good answer!
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