Track safety improvement ideas - Page 2

Bruce Fulper · 03-28-2007, 09:30 PM

Yes Adger, I sure like to joke around, but c'mon. People ought to know when I'm serious and when I'm not. From the eye witrness accounts - the side impact was the main reason for the brain impacting the skull. Front end of the car hit at an angle and the car whipped around hard, flush to the side. If that barrier could have gave a little. Just a little.

And sure, possibly a gel helmet liner can help. I think that's a good idea and that's what I'm hoping this post will produce. Something must be done soon. It's not a question or a retrospect thought of, "how long has it been since someone last.....DIED. (!)

The situation exists. It needs intelligent thought.

"The less I race the crankier I get..."

desbird · 03-28-2007, 11:05 PM

wj was working on a seat that was cast for his body like form would that help chuck

Bruce Fulper · 03-29-2007, 04:49 PM

QUOTE: "Different retaining wall devices are not going to solve the problem or make it less of an impact. you hit water @ 300 mph you are still dead."

Totally incorrect. You put zero thought into that statement. You can make a wall of different material and how it's affixed to the ground. Unlike water whos composition does not change. Yes, a rain drop will sting at 300 mph, but a wall of water....

Be nice to hear some good ideas.

"The less I race the crankier I get..."

sg1838 · 03-29-2007, 05:02 PM

I'm not going to say that the HANS is not a better device than the Hutchens device, but I think it's a little presumptuous to conclude that Eric Medlen's fatality was due to not using a HANS device.

I can hold your head perfectly still, but if I take the steel box you're sitting in and crush it from all sides at high speed down to the size of a coffee mug, you're dead regardless of whether your head moves or not. This is obviously an over exaggeration, but unless you were part of the crash investigation team (including the police department and coroner's office), I don't think you can definitively say that Eric wasn't fatally injured because some other piece of the car came up and hit him in the head as it was disintegrating from the force of impact.

As an example, when Darrell Russell was killed, a HANS device would not have saved him. The ballistic shields that NHRA made all T/F competitors install after Darrell Russell's death behind the driver's compartment MAY have, but even that's not definitive.

I for one can't positively conclude that the HANS device is better than the Hutchens device. I like the looks of the design of the HANS device better, but until I see conclusive evidence from a neutral 3rd party (i.e. not at HANS website), I won't make any conclusions. That said, if I were going to race in T/F and was going to buy one, it would probably be the HANS.

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

Bruce Fulper · 03-30-2007, 01:42 AM

You guys........................Best Regards...but -

We need NEW ideas.

Not your personal opinions on what is currently in production.

"The less I race the crankier I get..."

Alan Roehrich · 03-30-2007, 08:14 AM

It will be VERY difficult to create a retaining wall material that will deflect and/or deform to absorb impact and not grab cars that do not hit it "square". And grabbing (like the safer barrier will do) a car and forcing a direction change will likely create a much more dangerous result. Drag cars are not designed to take a hit like a circle track car, if the wall grabs it, the wall may just shred the car and then sling it back out into the track.

I don't know what the solution is, I don't claim to know, but I do know what a safer barrier will do when hit at the angles MOST COMMON in drag racing accidents. It's already happened in circle track racing, and I actually got to see some of the testing done. It rips the side right off a Cup car. Imagine what it would do to a drag car, like a Pro Stock, or any dragster or funny car.

A POSSIBLE solution might be to set the concrete BACK, and install some sort of foam or water bladder in front of it, covered by some sort of continuous cover (overlapping steel plate?) that won't grab a car that does not hit it square. Narrowing the track some in the process, so that the cars do not have room to accelerate much if they turn sharply towards the wall. The other problem with a system like that is keeping the car down and on the track, as opposed to launching it into the crowd. You have to keep the track very visible to the fans, so you can't raise the wall too high. The big cable type fences will also grab and shred a car. The next solution is to raise the stands and set them back. How much and how far will be acceptable to the fans? In the end, sadly, another factor is "how much will it cost?" Human life is priceless, however, unfortunately, there is not an unlimited amount of money available to fund projects like that.

One thing is for sure, they certainly do not need to just "do something" for the sake of saying they're doing something. The last thing they need to do is make the problem worse.

Alan Roehrich

Bring "AA" classes to NHRA Stock Eliminator!

Bruce Fulper · 03-30-2007, 12:01 PM

Anything to lessen the damage to the driver. I believe we'll now see F/C cage construction lean towards side impact improvement. Side bars like a sprint car. The basic F/C cage design hasn't changed in 25 years.

"The less I race the crankier I get..."

03-30-2007, 08:14 AM	#16
Alan Roehrich VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 4,907 Likes: 993 Liked 1,031 Times in 270 Posts	It will be VERY difficult to create a retaining wall material that will deflect and/or deform to absorb impact and not grab cars that do not hit it "square". And grabbing (like the safer barrier will do) a car and forcing a direction change will likely create a much more dangerous result. Drag cars are not designed to take a hit like a circle track car, if the wall grabs it, the wall may just shred the car and then sling it back out into the track. I don't know what the solution is, I don't claim to know, but I do know what a safer barrier will do when hit at the angles MOST COMMON in drag racing accidents. It's already happened in circle track racing, and I actually got to see some of the testing done. It rips the side right off a Cup car. Imagine what it would do to a drag car, like a Pro Stock, or any dragster or funny car. A POSSIBLE solution might be to set the concrete BACK, and install some sort of foam or water bladder in front of it, covered by some sort of continuous cover (overlapping steel plate?) that won't grab a car that does not hit it square. Narrowing the track some in the process, so that the cars do not have room to accelerate much if they turn sharply towards the wall. The other problem with a system like that is keeping the car down and on the track, as opposed to launching it into the crowd. You have to keep the track very visible to the fans, so you can't raise the wall too high. The big cable type fences will also grab and shred a car. The next solution is to raise the stands and set them back. How much and how far will be acceptable to the fans? In the end, sadly, another factor is "how much will it cost?" Human life is priceless, however, unfortunately, there is not an unlimited amount of money available to fund projects like that. One thing is for sure, they certainly do not need to just "do something" for the sake of saying they're doing something. The last thing they need to do is make the problem worse. Alan Roehrich Bring "AA" classes to NHRA Stock Eliminator! __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

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03-28-2007, 09:30 PM	#11
Bruce Fulper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 651 Likes: 4 Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts	Yes Adger, I sure like to joke around, but c'mon. People ought to know when I'm serious and when I'm not. From the eye witrness accounts - the side impact was the main reason for the brain impacting the skull. Front end of the car hit at an angle and the car whipped around hard, flush to the side. If that barrier could have gave a little. Just a little. And sure, possibly a gel helmet liner can help. I think that's a good idea and that's what I'm hoping this post will produce. Something must be done soon. It's not a question or a retrospect thought of, "how long has it been since someone last.....DIED. (!) The situation exists. It needs intelligent thought. "The less I race the crankier I get..."

03-28-2007, 11:05 PM	#12
desbird Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: michigan Posts: 52 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	wj was working on a seat that was cast for his body like form would that help chuck

03-29-2007, 04:49 PM	#13
Bruce Fulper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 651 Likes: 4 Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts	QUOTE: "Different retaining wall devices are not going to solve the problem or make it less of an impact. you hit water @ 300 mph you are still dead." Totally incorrect. You put zero thought into that statement. You can make a wall of different material and how it's affixed to the ground. Unlike water whos composition does not change. Yes, a rain drop will sting at 300 mph, but a wall of water.... Be nice to hear some good ideas. "The less I race the crankier I get..."

03-29-2007, 05:02 PM	#14
sg1838 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 80 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm not going to say that the HANS is not a better device than the Hutchens device, but I think it's a little presumptuous to conclude that Eric Medlen's fatality was due to not using a HANS device. I can hold your head perfectly still, but if I take the steel box you're sitting in and crush it from all sides at high speed down to the size of a coffee mug, you're dead regardless of whether your head moves or not. This is obviously an over exaggeration, but unless you were part of the crash investigation team (including the police department and coroner's office), I don't think you can definitively say that Eric wasn't fatally injured because some other piece of the car came up and hit him in the head as it was disintegrating from the force of impact. As an example, when Darrell Russell was killed, a HANS device would not have saved him. The ballistic shields that NHRA made all T/F competitors install after Darrell Russell's death behind the driver's compartment MAY have, but even that's not definitive. I for one can't positively conclude that the HANS device is better than the Hutchens device. I like the looks of the design of the HANS device better, but until I see conclusive evidence from a neutral 3rd party (i.e. not at HANS website), I won't make any conclusions. That said, if I were going to race in T/F and was going to buy one, it would probably be the HANS. Jason Oldfield S/G & S/ST 1838

03-30-2007, 01:42 AM	#15
Bruce Fulper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 651 Likes: 4 Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts	You guys........................Best Regards...but - We need NEW ideas. Not your personal opinions on what is currently in production. "The less I race the crankier I get..."

03-30-2007, 12:01 PM	#17
Bruce Fulper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 651 Likes: 4 Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts	Anything to lessen the damage to the driver. I believe we'll now see F/C cage construction lean towards side impact improvement. Side bars like a sprint car. The basic F/C cage design hasn't changed in 25 years. "The less I race the crankier I get..."