How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St - Page 3

roseracing · 08-18-2010, 10:03 AM

We run 3 cars in the .90 classes. One in S/St (10.90), one in S/G (9.90), and one in S/C (8.90).

This is an interesting conversation. I would prefer to run with no TS in my S/St car because it barely runs the number anyway. When I first started, all I did was adjust my trottle linkage and I ended up with a R/U finish at my 2nd divisional race. I thought, man this will be great when I add the TS. I added the TS the next year and haven't made it to another final since. (We only race 6 divisionals a year).

Now the other 2 cars we have run well under the index, so a TS makes since. Plus it's easier on parts.

We don't think TS cars are fun to watch unless your watching at the finish line.

We would run whatever the rules dictate, TS or not.

We would prefer to run in Stk or S/Stk but the thought of a teardown keeps us away from that. We prefer to do all our work at home and not at the racetrack. In Cordova 2 weeks ago, we were pitted right next to tech. We watched as they tore down the gentlemen in the PT crusier turbo. That guy didn't even get to make his 1st round run (which was a bye, I think) because he didn't have it all back together yet. What fun is that?

I guess the same point will be made over and over. It's no fun watching the .90 cars because of the throttle stops. If we take them away and everyone runs essentially the same MPH - how is that more fun to watch? The only logical answer is to lower the indexes. How far to lower them - I don't know. Didn't Stk and/or S/Stk just take a 3 hundreths hit on all indexes this last winter? Why not do the same with the .90 classes? Obviously all the cars at events are faster than they were 20 years ago, but the only classes that haven't had an index change are the .90 classes. I wish NHRA would lower them to 10.00, 9.00, and 8.00. That would make it easier to watch and understand. Obviously, I would have to change a lot on my car to run those numbers, but I would do it.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks,
Brad Rose
Rose Racing

Ed Fernandez · 08-18-2010, 10:06 AM

who enjoys 13 second class cars.[/QUOTE]

I do.

Mike Carr · 08-18-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ3159

i got it combine everything and make it a giant bracket race,oh wait they have those.or for stock get rid of everything j and up ,for super stock m and up .who enjoys 13 second class cars.

Many of us do for several reasons.

-Originality. Not everyone likes, nor wants to race, a 396 Camaro A/SA or run a SS/GT or Modified Cobalt/Cavalier. Cookie cutter cars = boring. I like a little more diversity. Pro Modified in it's early days was exciting. Now, not so much.

-The challenge. Taking a slower, lower powered, small-motored 4, 6 or 8 cylinder car and making it run quick, within a restrictive set of rules. How many people do you know that can take a '70 Nova with a 230 cid inline six-cylinder, using all OEM parts, and make it go mid 14's? I would dare say you could count them on one hand and have fingers left over. I dare say it's more of a challenge making a car like that run a second under than a BBC-powered Camaro.

-Budget. A lower-classed Stocker involves less maintanance and cost to race, compared to a big-block muscle car, seldom if ever spins the tires, almost never breaks anything. Plus, we get a "clean" tree.

There are probably more reasons, but you get the point. I know, slower cars aren't for everyone, but there are many of us that enjoy them.

B.D. (two time Top 10 IHRA Division 1 Stock points finisher in a high 17, low 18 second 110 cid 4 cylinder FWD four door Sunbird in HF/SA)

CMcAllister · 08-18-2010, 10:17 AM

Seem like everyone looks down on someone else. The Pros look down at the Sportsmen, NHRA guys look down at IHRA people, class racers look down at bracket racing, car guys look down at bikes, most people look down at sport compacts and everybody thinks the .90 classes suck. I may not pay any attention to or care about some of these options, but I'm glad they exist to help pay the bills, keep tracks, parts manufactures and sponsors in business and give a wider audience a reason to go drag racing.

I like class racing for what it is, a challenging, performance based eliminator with specific rules and limitations and I would like to do that "someday"..

The .90 class racers have a different objective. Run the number regardless the air, the track, the horsepower, etc. It is also challenging and much more difficult to adjust the car than the number on the window. Many prefer the pro tree/heads up style of racing. We all like to run heads up, don't we? Not many can afford to run the "big" pro tree classes though.

There are as many ways to utilize the hated throttle stop as there are racers and at this point, I don't know how you take them off without eliminating the classes all together. If there were a better way, someone would have already done it and made a pile of money.

Robert Simpson · 08-18-2010, 10:20 AM

I think you should be able to build what ever and go how ever fast you want. But, I would like to see throttle stops only being used at the top end. I would like to see 2 cars leave as hard as they can, and run hard, then have a stop slow them down. There are no grandstands and the top end of most tracks. It would be safer (lower speeds), less chance of jamming on brakes at 175mph plus. Plus, the people in the stands could better understand it. These classes have the largest population of racers with cars that are second to none. Ask the racers if they want to move the indexes. But, with moving the indexes would it requires a safety change? More safety equipment (due to the et)? Just a thought on a good subject. Also, random pairing for all super classes until say quarter finals. That would help the program run smoother. I have paired up 50+ S/C cars at Orlando before and that takes a while!!

Mike Gray · 08-18-2010, 10:57 AM

I started out in SST then SG, as everone went to a throttle stop so did I, that's when I realized I didn't like it any more. (Now I'm building a stocker) My suggestion is to dump the throttle stops and change the classes to A/G B/G and C/G like the Goodguys (now Heritage Series) much more fun to watch.

SSGN · 08-18-2010, 11:03 AM

Make the rules the same as NHRA unleashed,no boxes or throttle stops.Permit a 2 step and thats it.This would also make it safer as the speeds would drop drastically.Just add weight to slow down or change shift pionts.No 8 sec cars would be running in a 10.90 class.I think as a spectator it would be much more entertaining.people who do not know drag racing don;t understand or like the start/stop/start racing.JMHO
Kevin

X-TECH MAN · 08-18-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSGN

Make the rules the same as NHRA unleashed,no boxes or throttle stops.Permit a 2 step and thats it.This would also make it safer as the speeds would drop drastically.Just add weight to slow down or change shift pionts.No 8 sec cars would be running in a 10.90 class.I think as a spectator it would be much more entertaining.people who do not know drag racing don;t understand or like the start/stop/start racing.JMHO
Kevin

Im for that !

et7333 · 08-18-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-tech man

im for that !

x2

cicero819 · 08-18-2010, 06:03 PM

When Super Gas was introduce in NHRA racing I helped in building a couple of S/G Monza with friends, one was a homebuilt and the other was an Alston built S/G. In the homebuilt, we machine evrything the struts from Porches and rack pinions from Pinto's from junk yards, rear ends from a Versailles Lincoln Continental with it's discs brakes and the front brakes where Mustang 2. The other car had M/W everything with Lamb brakes. All this to say that I understand why timers and throttle stops were added:to save top end accidents, since a lot of the equipment was sometime not up to par, and many racers started to roll many cars NHRA probably decided to live with on problem than to have another more litigious concern"killing themselves or killing a spectator. I'm all for the throttle adjustement but could we have at the other end not at the starting line. Rock you're the expert in Super Gas and you have a great looking machine that I love to watch,what do you think could be adjusted for this old fart to enjoy 90's competition again and by the way knowledgeable fan go and buy their t shirts during the circus first round.lol CR

08-18-2010, 10:03 AM	#21
roseracing Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: South Sioux City, NE Posts: 108 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St We run 3 cars in the .90 classes. One in S/St (10.90), one in S/G (9.90), and one in S/C (8.90). This is an interesting conversation. I would prefer to run with no TS in my S/St car because it barely runs the number anyway. When I first started, all I did was adjust my trottle linkage and I ended up with a R/U finish at my 2nd divisional race. I thought, man this will be great when I add the TS. I added the TS the next year and haven't made it to another final since. (We only race 6 divisionals a year). Now the other 2 cars we have run well under the index, so a TS makes since. Plus it's easier on parts. We don't think TS cars are fun to watch unless your watching at the finish line. We would run whatever the rules dictate, TS or not. We would prefer to run in Stk or S/Stk but the thought of a teardown keeps us away from that. We prefer to do all our work at home and not at the racetrack. In Cordova 2 weeks ago, we were pitted right next to tech. We watched as they tore down the gentlemen in the PT crusier turbo. That guy didn't even get to make his 1st round run (which was a bye, I think) because he didn't have it all back together yet. What fun is that? I guess the same point will be made over and over. It's no fun watching the .90 cars because of the throttle stops. If we take them away and everyone runs essentially the same MPH - how is that more fun to watch? The only logical answer is to lower the indexes. How far to lower them - I don't know. Didn't Stk and/or S/Stk just take a 3 hundreths hit on all indexes this last winter? Why not do the same with the .90 classes? Obviously all the cars at events are faster than they were 20 years ago, but the only classes that haven't had an index change are the .90 classes. I wish NHRA would lower them to 10.00, 9.00, and 8.00. That would make it easier to watch and understand. Obviously, I would have to change a lot on my car to run those numbers, but I would do it. Just my 2 cents. Thanks, Brad Rose Rose Racing

08-18-2010, 10:06 AM	#22
Ed Fernandez Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NOO JOISEY nexta NOO YAWK Posts: 5,879 Likes: 38 Liked 100 Times in 45 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St who enjoys 13 second class cars.[/QUOTE] I do. __________________ Former NHRA #1945 Former IHRA #1945 T/SA

08-18-2010, 10:17 AM	#24
CMcAllister Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Fulton County, PA Posts: 533 Likes: 9 Liked 745 Times in 206 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St Seem like everyone looks down on someone else. The Pros look down at the Sportsmen, NHRA guys look down at IHRA people, class racers look down at bracket racing, car guys look down at bikes, most people look down at sport compacts and everybody thinks the .90 classes suck. I may not pay any attention to or care about some of these options, but I'm glad they exist to help pay the bills, keep tracks, parts manufactures and sponsors in business and give a wider audience a reason to go drag racing. I like class racing for what it is, a challenging, performance based eliminator with specific rules and limitations and I would like to do that "someday".. The .90 class racers have a different objective. Run the number regardless the air, the track, the horsepower, etc. It is also challenging and much more difficult to adjust the car than the number on the window. Many prefer the pro tree/heads up style of racing. We all like to run heads up, don't we? Not many can afford to run the "big" pro tree classes though. There are as many ways to utilize the hated throttle stop as there are racers and at this point, I don't know how you take them off without eliminating the classes all together. If there were a better way, someone would have already done it and made a pile of money.

08-18-2010, 10:20 AM	#25
Robert Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 803 Likes: 6 Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St I think you should be able to build what ever and go how ever fast you want. But, I would like to see throttle stops only being used at the top end. I would like to see 2 cars leave as hard as they can, and run hard, then have a stop slow them down. There are no grandstands and the top end of most tracks. It would be safer (lower speeds), less chance of jamming on brakes at 175mph plus. Plus, the people in the stands could better understand it. These classes have the largest population of racers with cars that are second to none. Ask the racers if they want to move the indexes. But, with moving the indexes would it requires a safety change? More safety equipment (due to the et)? Just a thought on a good subject. Also, random pairing for all super classes until say quarter finals. That would help the program run smoother. I have paired up 50+ S/C cars at Orlando before and that takes a while!!

08-18-2010, 10:57 AM	#26
Mike Gray Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 519 Likes: 222 Liked 498 Times in 134 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St I started out in SST then SG, as everone went to a throttle stop so did I, that's when I realized I didn't like it any more. (Now I'm building a stocker) My suggestion is to dump the throttle stops and change the classes to A/G B/G and C/G like the Goodguys (now Heritage Series) much more fun to watch.

08-18-2010, 11:03 AM	#27
SSGN Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 625 Likes: 110 Liked 130 Times in 46 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St Make the rules the same as NHRA unleashed,no boxes or throttle stops.Permit a 2 step and thats it.This would also make it safer as the speeds would drop drastically.Just add weight to slow down or change shift pionts.No 8 sec cars would be running in a 10.90 class.I think as a spectator it would be much more entertaining.people who do not know drag racing don;t understand or like the start/stop/start racing.JMHO Kevin

08-18-2010, 06:03 PM	#30
cicero819 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aylmer Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,086 Likes: 31 Liked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St When Super Gas was introduce in NHRA racing I helped in building a couple of S/G Monza with friends, one was a homebuilt and the other was an Alston built S/G. In the homebuilt, we machine evrything the struts from Porches and rack pinions from Pinto's from junk yards, rear ends from a Versailles Lincoln Continental with it's discs brakes and the front brakes where Mustang 2. The other car had M/W everything with Lamb brakes. All this to say that I understand why timers and throttle stops were added:to save top end accidents, since a lot of the equipment was sometime not up to par, and many racers started to roll many cars NHRA probably decided to live with on problem than to have another more litigious concern"killing themselves or killing a spectator. I'm all for the throttle adjustement but could we have at the other end not at the starting line. Rock you're the expert in Super Gas and you have a great looking machine that I love to watch,what do you think could be adjusted for this old fart to enjoy 90's competition again and by the way knowledgeable fan go and buy their t shirts during the circus first round.lol CR