Crate Motor Class

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Real Racer

When? IHRA never tears anyone down. Not in the last 5 years that I seen.

Start tearing some of those things down and watch them slow down.

Excuse me, both my car and Terry Knott's car when I drove for him have been apart several times.

Re: "glorified bracket race"... yes, it is... and it's the "glorified" part that makes it special! I am a bracket racer. I *like* class racing, whether it be class runoffs, heads-up runs in eliminations, qualifying, etc. FWIW, I wouldn't have a problem with full pound weight breaks and combining sticks & autos in a large number of areas, which would generate more heads-up runs... which I find totally ironic: a bracket racer accepting such ideas when so many die-hard Stock racers are vehemently against them. I take a broad view of the sport, and consider a lot of things that I think might be better for the sport as a whole, and not things that just benefit "me". But, that's all just my personal opinion, and no one else's.

Dave - Brandon's okay! He may drive a Ford, but he works at a Dodge dealer.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by tpoh815

I dont care what H R A you run. If your going .5 under or more its expensive and your cheating somewhere period.

Its more like 7-8 under. Ive built several over the years for a local crate motored racer and they all run 7+ under. Thats WITHOUT any funny tricks or streaching the rules. Your correct though.....Unless they have a soft index or are underrated I would guess that any quicker than 8+ or so under have some bogus stuff someplace. Your always going to have some a little quicker because they test, work, and spend BIG MONEY on thier car but this 1.2 and 1.4 under dosent impress me or anyone in the know. Thats dicounting "mine shaft air".

[Dick Butler]

Curious why there needs to be a Crate Class group. Since every year a new bogus motor is found in the Chevrolet book (as far as factoring) or a new paper Ford, or a Chrysler Nascar version never seen but documented , why wouldnt people be asking to just use a Spec (Crate)motor in regular classes of SS or GT? If it is factored and has specs and could be teched they might be a cheaper "next year motor" when people upgrade or rebuild.
To me the issue of continual "finds" which are underfactored because of inadequate insight from Tech department IS the issue in many of the discussions. Yes I know the "finds" were in the books but..... The problem they cause is an issue, currently the machining rules are the new issue.
Knowing how poorly factoring is handled it would be a bad idea.
Problem is tech bends very far to get every potential entrant happy and paying for the right to compete while actually upsetting 99% of those who have cars, paid and raced last season.
"IMPORTANT" Racers upset but still attending and paying doesnt affect the bottom line. The Economic conditions WILL affect the business but as long as they are the rule makers, changing rule positions will be the norm and upset will continue.
My bet is the new factory hot rods will have an extremely favorable rating to "bait people" to build and enter them.

[bsa633]

Dick...No one wants "spec motors " .. 70-80% would probably leave the class in a minute...why wont you give it a rest!

[Bruce Noland]

I'm sorry Dick but none of this stuff is going to fly. It's a fun thread, but that is all it is. I know you love talking this stuff but talk is all it will ever amount to.

Michael, You have to be honest about IHRA tear downs. You race more IHRA races than any one, and do very well, so logic would dictate that you may be torn down once in awhile. I love IHRA but it has been pretty much run what you brung with them for years.

[Dave Turner]

Originally Posted by Brandon Peterson

mark, i think me and santa are going to try and move the back bar back so we can get a little more room............

Brandon, that was the answer in my car, and I'm "only" 5ft-19.

[KEN BUGAJ]

Originally Posted by Dave Ribeiro

Ken,

I really beg to disagree with you... I missed my first Rockingham race in 8 years last fall ...
I have been racing IHRA for 15 years, please don't put words in my mouth.. Yes, I do feel crate motors have soft HP factors, thats not only my feelings but many racers...
Ken, other than Top Stock years ago I haven't seen your name on any sheets for a while? You are the one who is trying to stir this up... Leave crates with IHRA and buy or build an NHRA car so you can come play with all of us....If you are planning on buying or building a new stocker, why wouldn't you build an NHRA car where you could run both ??? Don't tell me its about the money, cause a good crate motor isn't cheap either, but they are fast... If you want to run NHRA ,buy or build a car that fits the rules, don't try to change the rules to fit the car you have... You all are trying to make this a bigger thing than it really is, race by the rules !!! I have enjoyed running both NHRA & IHRA, but there are things about both that I don't like... So we all have CHOICES use them... Nobody is forcing anyone to race either NHRA or IHRA class racing .... There are rules in place don't try to change them, live with them or don't show up..... Also don't think that everyone spends 15-20 k on engines, thats exactly what they want you to think ?


Mike, sorry I still think they are soft, but you are right its only a bracket race with rules...I am like you and like to run both NHRA & IHRA....I think we have beat this to death, leave crates with IHRA and have a good 2009 race season.... Come on spring time.........

Dave, Here's Rockingham Qualifying from last year.
I only see 7 Crate Motor car's in the top 20.(so much for soft HP)
Now let's go to my Racing,
Yeah, I got upset in 03 when they killed Top Stock and got out of Racing,
But Dave, I raced from 1969 to 03 and was burnt out.
I raced NHRA & IHRA every chance I had from Sanair to Miami to Indy to Texas to Baton Rouge.
I Just finished another car and I'll be out a little this year.
Did I start this post, Sure Did, In hopes that NHRA may look at Crate Motor Car's or a GT/Stock.
I didn't start this for a pissing contest,
Build an NHRA car, Why? I live in NC and have 7 or 8 IHRA tracks less than 4 hours from my home.
I just wanted Crate motor's or GT/Stock to be able to cross over.

Leave crates with IHRA and buy or build an NHRA car so you can come play with all of us..
Yeah, Like your stocker is any better than mine, and I had a few !!




1 1305 S/GTD Duane Eiskant, Chester VA, '86 Mustang 10.628 12.20 -1.572
2 1967 G/SA Jim Marshall, Scottsville NY, '80 Corvette 10.933 12.30 -1.367
3 988 M/CM Brandon Peterson, Randleman NC, '95 Mustang11.385 12.75 -1.365
4 2420 A/S Arnold Greene, Matthews NC, '69 Camaro 9.950 11.30 -1.350
5 2089 F/FIA John Livingston, Murfreesboro TN, '91 Cama 11.641 12.95 -1.309
6 9777 C/CM Marvin Strickland Jr., Rowland NC, '87 Cam 9.941 11.25 -1.309
7 2706 W/S Tom Gould, Beaufort SC, '66 Corvair 15.407 16.70 -1.293
8 9224 A/CM Terry Taylor, Lumberton NC, '75 Corvette 9.678 10.95 -1.272
9 1 C/SA Anthony Bertozzi, Ashland VA, '69 Camaro 10.487 11.70 -1.213
10 1781 B/SA Dan Fletcher, Churchville NY, '69 Camaro 10.343 11.55 -1.207
11 9269 R/SA Billy Wilson, Laurens SC, '66 BelAir Wgn 13.148 14.35 -1.202
12 2312 L/S Tom Hemmingston, Concord NC, '66 Chevelle 11.814 13.00 -1.186
13 9510 I/CM Scott Macy, Randleman NC, '78 Volare 10.970 12.15 -1.180
14 2 I/CM Michael Beard, Seagrove NC, '80 Volare 10.976 12.15 -1.174
15 9707 C/SA Mickey Whaley, Kinston NC, '69 Camaro 10.531 11.70 -1.169
16 2318 E/FIA Dennis Pope, Kinston NC, '85 Camaro 11.435 12.60 -1.165
17 3438 AA/SA Harley Day, Dellroy OH, '64 Savoy 9.994 11.15 -1.156
18 10 H/CM Jamie Southards, Shelby NC, '74 Duster 10.845 12.00 -1.155
19 268 G/SA Painter Stevenson, Flowery Branch GA, '69 11.155 12.30 -1.145
20 954 E/CM Richard Alford Jr, Raleigh NC, '68 Camaro 10.407 11.55 -1.143

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

MIke - I don't know that the Ross's and Wright's cars are good examples, because they are in a class of their own, quite literally. (FWD conversion crate) and I believe they are the only three in the country.



I qualified 6th at Martin (IHRA Nat'l event where they ran Class) in similar weather conditions to what we had at Indy. I would've qualified at Indy, but just by a few hundredths. (and YES, I've spent money on my car.)

quickest crate at Martin was 4th...
Bob Marshall H/CM '73 Dart Sport, -1.027 under 10.973, with 325hp 360 @ 3258# min (9.50# class) would've placed him 83rd at Indy.
compared to Indy's #6 qualifier
David Buckner E/SA '72 Duster -1.233 under 10.767 (which frickin' RAWKED!) with 289hp 340 @ 3060# min (10# class)

While the comparison is for entertainment purposes only, it doesn't seem like they are worlds apart, all things considered.

I didn't even realize this because I don't really follow crate motor cars that much,but according to your example,are these classes theoretically the same?

E/CM = A/SA
F/CM = B/SA
G/CM = C/SA
H/CM = D/SA
I/CM = E/SA
J/CM = F/SA
.
If they are theoretically the same AND If IHRA and NHRA had the same rules (and they were followed) it might be interesting.

[Dave Ribeiro]

Ken,

I know why you started the post and I think thats fine.. I also know what its like to get burnt out. I also have raced for over 40 years up & down the East coast....
On the number of crates in the top 20 at the last Rockingham race, that was a rare case.
Normally, its 15-16 out of Top 20, you can check back on that... Ken, you make it sound like your the only NHRA racer in The Carolinas... There are many good racers right in your back yard whom built or own NHRA cars to be able to crossover..I do like racing IHRA and have for years, I also never said or think my car is better than anyone's....Check around !!!

Anyway, good luck with your new race car and I knew you were a good racer, saw you run Top Stock years ago... I just don't think we should keep changing the rules to suit a few
racers....Like I said its great that we still have choices on where to race...
* just my own opinion...................End of this conversation.... lets Race....

[Dick Butler]

Guys,
This has been an interesting discussion but in my opinion the "flavor " of Stock or SS or GT for that matter would be lost if outside motors were allowed in these classes. I have discussed and continue to feel there are TOO MANY classes in Stock and SS for people to chose now. Fewer classes the better, more reason for Class at events, possibly more appeal. Crate motor classes are just that more classes.
I stand by my dissappointment with the low factoring of discovered combinations and the paper cars and etc. I believe it is business decisions which are to blame in most cases. As for the cc,s, valve angles etc the can of worms is already opened and creating more problems not fewer.
My opinion is a movement to limit motors as a back door way of limiting the tech screw ups which come with more decisions and opinions on components and HP specifically could have been better.
Thanks for responses to my questions...
Dick